Loading (again) in Roll CASTING/Spey CASTING

[Michal Duzynski]

Hi
I did a bit of casting in a puddle, just something to keep me busy after 6 days of rain


..anyway all ok, but then this loading question stuck in my head.
I asked on FB group, but could be missed, so I ask here.
I put a picture of my question, so I don't have to re type it.
Cheers
Mike

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Mike

You accelerate the top part of the D loop towards your target, the bottom part and leader are just passengers in the beginning, that is why spey tapers have most mass towards the tip of the rod, remember mass is king. And why tapers that have most mass towards the leader are poorer roll and spey casting lines.
It has nothing to do with stiff or soft rods, thats personal preference, but with your ability to accelerate the right part of the line as straight as possible.

Cheers
Lasse

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Mike,

Very nice casting indeed What do you call that first cast with the level drop by the way? I've always know it as the Mel Krieger long roll cast.

It depends on D loop size and distances, but a softer rod allows us to move the line a bit more straighter than a stiffer rod with a bigger arc (for more line speed). We don't have as much weight in the D loop as we would when overhead casting, and this is apparent on static rolls. If i was going to be really restricted with space (small D loop), then i'd use a softer rod. Thankfully i have a HT which is very good at everything.

Momentum = Mass x Velocity

In regards to lines, you want to maximize the momentum of the line under the rod tip to the top of the V loop to help pull the rest out of the water, and present. Spey lines tend to have heavier line at the back, and a lighter tip. This taper makes it easier to change direction than a line with a much heavier tip, but you can spey cast any line. I personally use the Thunderbolt and the MED, think you do to? More mass will bend the rod a bit more and match a straighter tip path too.

All the best!

[carlz]

You don't have to stand in the puddle by the way. You can just let the line in front of you stay in the water.

I've done some roll casting practice after a rain in a parking lot. the water was less than a quarter inch deep in the puddle but it worked fine.

[jarmo]

It looks like a spey bird found a puddle after a long dry period. Great video.

A puddle is very forgiving in one way: there is no extra anchor stick even if part of your anchor (and point P) lands way behind you.

(As for your question, I have nothing to add to what Lasse said. Surprise. )

[Paul Arden]

Very nice casting Mike. I enjoyed that.

The difference between a stiff and a soft rod is obviously about bend. The softer rod will flex more with the same amount of force applied. This in turn will give either a longer tip path or a flatter tip path.

Personally I don’t like Spey lines for Spey casting. I don’t like heavier lines for Spey casting. You know the stiffness of rods I like because you have them. I like a true to weight long belly line correctly matched to the HT.

For many people however they might prefer a completely different feeling. But I like speed and pull-back for my delivery shots. And I think it’s mostly a question of speed. If you like a fast delivery you are putting in more force and bending the rod to the same extent that someone might for example when casting a heavier line with less speed.

Just my thoughts anyway!

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

The difference between a stiff and a soft rod is obviously about bend. The softer rod will flex more with the same amount of force applied. This in turn will give either a longer tip path or a flatter tip path.

Just my thoughts anyway!

Cheers, Paul

Just my thoughts:



Cheers
Lasse

[Torsten]

Hi Paul,

The difference between a stiff and a soft rod is obviously about bend. The softer rod will flex more with the same amount of force applied. This in turn will give either a longer tip path or a flatter tip path.

yes, that's what I think too, the stiffness influences certainly the tip path for the same load.

Lasse, have you measured the stiffness of these rods (small deflections) for above example? They seem to have a different length?

Thanks,
Torsten

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Torsten

Yes I have, and yes they are different lengths, the tips are aligned. Now adays I demo using simliar lengths and have the same outcome.

Soft rod is a berkley grayphite 25% carbon rod with lined rings and a IP of 97 grams
Stiff rod is a TCX 690 with a IP of 167 grams
The soft rod is 8 feer and the stiff is 8 feet 10 inches, so I had to hold the stiff one at the top of the handle to align the tips so tip travel would be as equal as possible. Line on either rod is a 5 weight rio gold tournament, that are as close to each other as possible.

To have a marked different bend, I have a demo where I cast 3 identical rods with three different lines on, a 9 meter 9 gram a 9 meter 15 gram one and a 9 meter 20 gram one. They show that for same input from the caster, yiu get more bend from a heavier line. Just not as much as some claim... Paul has the clip shot of my demo in Romania a few years back, sadly I lost mine, otherwise I would have uploaded it.

Cheers
Lasse

[Torsten]

Hi Lasse,

the issue is that the stiffness is a nonlinear function and the CCS uses a relative deflection and thus it's not that easy to compare rods of a different length. I'd guess at the moment that the stiffness of these rods is somewhat similar for small deflections because I see a quite similar bend during acceleration in your video. Just one rod has a much larger backbounce and the different material would explain that. Maybe you could repeat that experiment with two rods of the same length and a larger stiffness variation for small deflections.

Thanks,
Torsten