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Sloppy Rod

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WC
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Sloppy Rod

#1

Post by WC »

Hello.
I was wondering if anyone has ever noticed their rod getting a sloppy feel while carrying line. I own a 5wt Orvis Recon and I find if I try to carry more than 70ft it gets a sloppy feeling with lack of power (this really surprised and unsettled me). Wonder if the rod was close to breaking. I use a 5wt SA Expert Distance line. My stroke and hauls are smooth and I don't jerk the rod around or use excessive force. Perhaps the Recon is just not great for longer carries?
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James9118
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#2

Post by James9118 »

Hi,

Pretty much all rods share the same basic geometry i.e. they are made from tapered tubes of carbon or glass (or whatever) composite. As such, when loaded the thin bit of the taper deflects first and the thicker bits follow as the load is increased. Therefore rods get stiffer the more they are bent. There are no circumstances in which the rod, under increased loading, suddenly loses stiffness i.e. gets sloppy (excluding actually breaking).

So once that is accepted you have to look for other reasons as to why you think the rod suddenly feels sloppy to you. My belief is that with softer rods and big deflections, people lose control of their tracking. This leads to a large loss of casting efficiency as the line is sent off in multiple directions within one casting stroke and the caster adds more and more input to try and make up for the missing line speed.

Cheers, James
WC
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#3

Post by WC »

It’s strange. This feels different than a cast with poor tracking. I’ve only noticed it the past two practice sessions and it surprised me. I wonder if there’s a weak spot in the blank? It’s possible it’s from a tracking error. It just feels different. You’ve given me something to think about. Thank you for the reply.
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James9118
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#4

Post by James9118 »

WC wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:28 pm I wonder if there’s a weak spot in the blank?
A weak point would flex right from the initial loading. I suspect the rod is softer than you'd like in the middle/lower sections i.e. where you'd like it to produce much less deflection in response to the load you're getting more than you want. You can try a static loading test with it - just tie different weights to the tip like in a CCS measurement.

Cheers, James.
WC
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#5

Post by WC »

Thank you James.
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#6

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi, i think that rod has a similar action to the sage x (i.e a VERY soft butt section) with a long carry it feels strange, i've cast a fellow anglers one and i found the butt section to be very soft.
My belief is that with softer rods and big deflections, people lose control of their tracking. This leads to a large loss of casting efficiency as the line is sent off in multiple directions within one casting stroke and the caster adds more and more input to try and make up for the missing line speed.
I agree! :cool:

All the best
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:
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Paul Arden
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#7

Post by Paul Arden »

I don’t know this rod in particular. However the Sage X 5wt feels this way. As do some of the Hardy rods I’ve cast. I’m not sure what it is. I’ve also cast fibre glass rods that do the same. I think it’s simply that the butt isn’t stiff enough. As James says the rod can’t suddenly become softer so it must be something along the lines of simply not being stiff enough.

It is very disconcerting I agree. It feels like it’s going to break but I suspect it has the exact opposite characteristics. We have cast 3WTs with 10WT lines trying to break them and failed. They felt quite similar in this regards. I suspect a higher modulus will result in a breakage - I have broken rods through casting but instead of feeling soft they have been unforgiving.

Certainly I would agree that such rods are unsuitable for distance casting.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Viking Lars
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#8

Post by Viking Lars »

James, the structural integrity of the tube must play a part as well, or what? I can imagine that some blanks ovalise sooner than others as a result of for instance wall thickness and possibly even magic postions added to the carbon weave before baking :-).

L
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James9118
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#9

Post by James9118 »

Hi Lars, I think part of the problem is a perception thing - because the tip bends first people can think that all the stress is in that portion of the rod and none elsewhere, thus the stress is transmitted down the rod as the load increases. This is incorrect. The deflection may be localised (initially) in the tip but the load is experienced by the whole of the rod.

As such, any structural integrity issues or points of weakness should be immediately apparent. That said, I once had a rod properly 'buckle' on me - it was a beach caster which was ok for a warm-up flick but then folded almost double when I really hit it. On inspection the carbon under the foam handle had been crushed, so the blank didn't just ovalise it pretty much flattened and flopped. However this level of damage would be obvious in a fly rod - once stripped it looked like my beachcaster (custom ordered, brand new!) had been run over with a car.

Cheers, James
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Sloppy Rod

#10

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Hi Walter

What's your max carry with other rods?

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

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