Essentails Revisited

[Bernd Ziesche]

Loop formation is the result of a slight deceleration, not a complete stop.

We stop because it's convenient not because it affects the loop.

From what I have seen in slow motion vids (and CA graphs), I think it's fair to say: Deceleration of the fly rod usually (maybe always) is done in a significant higher rate of (negative) acceleration, than it was accelerated in order to create line speed.
That (I think) is why many instructors have called the "abrupt stop" to be an important part of fly casting.
If the deceleration happens "slightly", than how was the acceleration? Extremely slightly?

Sure I agree loop formation would start with the slightest beginning of deceleration... But in order to effectively use the size of arc to create the desired line speed, I aim for a significant deceleration, not a slight deceleration of my rod.

I adjust the way how I stop (decelerate) the rod in order to shape my loops, as well as I stop the rod in order to create a loop.

So if you like, I understand the process of stopping the rod not only to affect the loop, but to be an important part of creating it.
Yet I don't really believe in casting loops back and forth without accelerating and decelerating (stopping) the rod.

What I agree on, is the rod doesn't have to be stopped until being motionless. In fact I think it hardly ever will be motionless during false casting.

Is there a vid available showing someone fly casting and not having a higher rate of deceleration than he/she was accelerating first? Or maybe a vid showing fly casting without deceleration at all?
Greets
Bernd

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Bernd

Is there any vid showing an abrupt stop?

a·brupt (-brpt)
adj.
1. Unexpectedly sudden:

Mostly the deceleration is shorter than the acceleration due to simple physics, we have a limited amount of movement.

What I don't like about the stop, is that for many it implies that we stop hard, abruptly, to let the spring throw the line. Great way of making tailing loops for most. Not a great way of making nice loops! Basicly that teaching works best when the student doesn't do exactly what we tell them to do
But then again, lots of teaching in flycasting is like that, so why change it

What we really do is accelerate, then cushion the rod, even if we want to make great curve casts like Aitor, we have a acceleration a sharp deceleration, maybe even an acceleration again then a cushioning....

Cheerios
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Bernd,

one of the methods I've seen you use and teach to tighten the loop is to use Swoop. For me that is deliberately altering the tip path as the rod unloads by lifting the butt instead of simply stopping it.

Cheers, Paul

[Michal Duzynski]

Loop formation is the result of a slight deceleration, not a complete stop.

We stop because it's convenient not because it affects the loop.

Is there a vid available showing someone fly casting and not having a higher rate of deceleration than he/she was accelerating first? Or maybe a vid showing fly casting without deceleration at all?
Greets
Bernd

Hi Bernd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do5fVqPJ ... ata_player
I made this video this mornning (quality not the best) is this wha you wanted to see. Im
not stoping the rod, Im not slowing down and there are some cool loops, loops are
better when I do it in horizontal plane.
I wouldn teach that to the begginer, and I wouldnt fish this way either.
This is just for the purpouse of this discussion that loops can be formed on BC&FC without stoping the rod. It can be done also in slower speed rate.
cheers
mike

[Marc Fauvet]

that's not fly casting, that's wanking with a stick...

[Michal Duzynski]

I wouldnt take "Frank Machine" fishing too, if Iwant deliver the fly with transition only.

[scotty9]

We could consider that the stop isn't necessary; I can make a series of oval false casts without the rod being actually still at any moment.
Conversely we could consider that for the rod butt to lose speed and move in the opposite direction there must be an action on the part of the caster, and that action results in stopping the motion of the rod butt in some direction. So we are stopping the rod.
Both approaches seem valid. Just semantics in my view.

I think most of this discussion revolves around the semantics of what "stop" means.

Reading through this thread it seems these two quotes sum most of it up.

We rotate the rod butt and then we slow its rotation. Is it a stop? It could be. Is it not a stop? Maybe not. Does the word stop work in most cases or as part of an explanation with other words? I'd say so.

Paul - the triangle method demo on the app page mentions stops a few times

Mike - your video still fits with the debate over what a stop means. Sure the rod doesn't actually stop physical motion but it does change direction...

[Gilly]

Okay guys, i am totally muddled by all of this. I have my casting exam this year and now you are saying that we should't teach the stop or even mention the word as we don't actually really stop the rod abruptly which is true once you start to know what you are doing but surely when teaching beginners they have to have an understanding that there is a point when acceleration changes into deceleration and the easiest way to get this across saying that they have to stop the rod.
Otherwise they would be wanging it all over the place!!!

Yes, I have also nicked Lee's triangular method and it works and it's fabulous for getting them up and running but in simple terms once they are casting further the easiest way and for them to understand the basics is that once they stop the rod the loop forms off the rod tip. Surely it is pretty essential that they have this understanding to move forward.
With the stop it makes everything seem to run into place so that for shooting line - stop and let go. Hauling - think haul on the stop. It seems like an easy point to put casting across then you can start to add the details.

Help - please, as I am writing all my casts out and I have mentioned stopping quite a lot!!! Is this now incorrect and I need to take it up a level.

Thanksxx

[Michal Duzynski]

Hi Gilly
My advise to you is to keep study as you did till now.
Im teaching the stop to the begginers, and I dont think Im doing somthing against my slef or others with different thoughts. Im happy,student is happy,-keep it simple.
I shot this video thinking I might proove somthing (Im not sure if I was right), and I agree with Marc, it looks like wanking-I dont cast like this. There r videos with broomsticj casting- but do we really cast or fish with broomstick- no
Keep it simple abd good luck on ur test.
cheers
mike

[Snake Pliskin]

Okay guys, i am totally muddled by all of this. I have my casting exam this year and now you are saying that we should't teach the stop or even mention the word as we don't actually really stop the rod abruptly which is true once you start to know what you are doing but surely when teaching beginners they have to have an understanding that there is a point when acceleration changes into deceleration and the easiest way to get this across saying that they have to stop the rod.
Otherwise they would be wanging it all over the place!!!

Yes, I have also nicked Lee's triangular method and it works and it's fabulous for getting them up and running but in simple terms once they are casting further the easiest way and for them to understand the basics is that once they stop the rod the loop forms off the rod tip. Surely it is pretty essential that they have this understanding to move forward.
With the stop it makes everything seem to run into place so that for shooting line - stop and let go. Hauling - think haul on the stop. It seems like an easy point to put casting across then you can start to add the details.

Help - please, as I am writing all my casts out and I have mentioned stopping quite a lot!!! Is this now incorrect and I need to take it up a level.

Thanksxx

I reckon the way you usually teach should be the way you do it. Just bring your own game on the day and do your thing! It's only the first hurdle, and there's plenty of time to think, re-think, learn and unlearn everything.