Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

[Bernd Ziesche]

If you look at the dots representing the rodtip in that picture, there is a point where the forward component becomes shorter than the downwards component, just before that is where I would like to let go, since the rodtip for me changes direction significantly there. But nice to know your thoughts

Hi Lasse,
that seems to be a good point to me either. Thanks for sharing.
I always focused on where the main trajectory of the fly-leg will point at. I think that only can result of what I have marked in white in that picture. The very next part of tip path is already horizontal but the trajectory is clearly upwards. So it seems to me that the white path is the one that matters in order to achive the upwarded trajectory.

In regard of release timing I agree that your (target) point should be a good one for sure.
Would be cool to see a slow motion of both your point as well as more early. In one way I think that the almost straight upwarded tip path is the one we need. But I do not know what will happen if we would release the line that early . Might end up in a desaster.
For sure we are on the same page about the "early release" to be a good one.
Thanks
Bernd

[Lasse Karlsson]

So yes, in my experience the biggest steps in increasing my technique never came with the amount of training but with the increase in knowledge. I think, if I know what to train, it makes it much more successful compared to training without the focus on what to improve exactly.
Greets
Bernd

Completly agree

Cheers
Lasse

[Ben_d]

So yes, in my experience the biggest steps in increasing my technique never came with the amount of training but with the increase in knowledge.

Completly agree

Cheers
Lasse

Absolutely

So, what about release timing when not hauling? Pre, at or post RSP 1?

Cheers

Ben

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Ben

Why would it change?

Cheers
Lasse

[Ben_d]

I don't know Lasse, I'm thinking just pre RSP 1 but I've got a lot jumping about in my head right now!

Cheers

Ben

[Bernd Ziesche]

So yes, in my experience the biggest steps in increasing my technique never came with the amount of training but with the increase in knowledge.

Completly agree

Cheers
Lasse

Absolutely

So, what about release timing when not hauling? Pre, at or post RSP 1?

Cheers

Ben

Morning Ben,
I think it depends on the size of arc and the resulting tip path.

Small arc and I think the tip path might almost be straight. That's when I think releasing at RSP1 should be very good.

Wide arc (170) and the tip path easily gets rounded at the end (pointing downwards). That is when I aim for an extra early release. I am pretty sure there will come a point, at which it was too early. Yet I can't tell where exactly that would be.

What I have realised long time ago, is that an early release for the (unhauled) static roll cast (while using a wide arc in order to achieve high speed) increases distance significally for me. But I think I hit the line to really shoot around RSP1 (maybe sometimes very little earlier) instead of what most casters do here: releasing the line around max counter flex.
What I could see immediately was the higher trajectory due to this early release technique. Now when we look at the picture in which I added the different coloured tip path, that makes pretty much sense to me.
On the AAPGAI meeting last year Vic showed me his technique on the static roll cast using a very narrow arc. I have played with that for a while now and it seems to me that an extra early release is no benefit here, too. I think even the counterflex is significally directed forward due to the small arc and the high forward stop. So the disadvantage we achieve when releasing late on the huge arc and the downwarded counterflex doesn't take place here.

Greets
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Vic's roll cast is virtually all pull-back I think, and quite superb, certainly one of the best I've seen.

My casting is worked out empirically by the way, ie by experiment first, and not the other way around. Rick's 170 is a good case in point. This didn't happen by working it out theoretically first, it came through casting in a barn.

I think with a head it may make sense to release pre RSP, especially with a wide arc, but I think the haul delays RSP. We know it straightens tip path to RSP - Grunde has shown this. I don't think it's correct to simply look at a haul placed on a casting stroke as an addition to the existing rod behaviour, since the haul affects the rod too.

Cheers Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Vic's roll cast is virtually all pull-back I think, and quite superb, certainly one of the best I've seen.

Hi Paul,
that probably depends on how we define "pull-back". If it is about the tip pulling the line back, yes we find that in his technique. If it is about the rod hand adding a pull-back movement (change of clock position for the butt section), no I cannot see that in Vic's roll cast. What is significant is, that he has to use high force in order to create the desired line speed on such a narrow arc. He then stops the rod very hard/abrupt and due to that significant counterflex takes place. But still the tip path is in forward direction mainly.

I have made a few videos of his indeed superb roll cast. I agree one of the best I have seen when it comes to tight loops unrolling above the surface. Not too easy to achive the desired speed on such a narrow arc though. He has driven that technique to a high degree!



Greets
Bernd

[Marc Fauvet]

where are Vic's videos, Bernd ? i don't see any links anywhere.

thanks
marc

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Marc,
that is because they are yet only available on my computer . I have taken the stills from those vids of course.

By the way here is another fine video to show the haul adjustment of a very good caster:


Interesting to watch how Menno moves his rod hand and line hand opposite to each other and when he starts to really accelerate each of them (starting 00:40s in slow motion). Remembers me to Joason Borger: "equal and opposite".
Greets
Bernd