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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

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Lasse Karlsson
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#11

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:51 am

Hi Paul

Why would you haul through rsp on a short cast?

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Bernd Ziesche
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#12

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:57 pm

Paul Arden wrote:When false casting a shorter length of line I - and I suspect you - haul through RSP. Hauling intensity doesn't have to match rod hand intensity, that's simply the easiest to learn. High haul intensity with light rod hand intensity produces the tightest loops.
Hi Paul,
of course we can always vary force application (in level and time) for both, rod and line hand.
So I agree Tim's advice (I think) is a good one for highest line speed on distance but could be more variable for short to medium range casting. Here I too like to teach a relatively fast line hand and a slower rod hand for an avg. cast. Also I like to teach to vary speed of both hands for a better feeling of what is possible, and how both hands can work together in different ways.
I prefer to talk about hand speed here, because I have no idea what the force level exactly will be when comparing rod and line hand. Line hand holds the line and rod hand holds the rod - so how do I know? Difficult, I think :cool:
But am sure I can control hand speed (in relation to each other) pretty precisely. And that is what I can see best. So I know if the students has a fast line hand compared to the rod hand or not.

About hauling thru RSP, I don't agree. In most of my back casts I have stopped my line hand the moment the rod just has straightened. In the forward casts it happens more often that I still move the line hand away from the first guide while the rod is already counterflexing. I understand this to be like "pulling on the rod-leg to speed up the unrolling". Not bad for line tension, I think. (But it does not happen on purpose. It's because in my bc mostly am closer to the point of "running out of line hand arm.) When using really short and fast hauls I don't think to haul thru RSP.
But if I want the tightest loops (during hauled false casting) I instead aim to have stopped my line hand early and then add a follow thru immediately. Ever tried that? ;)

For a distance shoot I am pretty sure that hauling thru RSP means momentum in the wrong direction and will cost overall distance.

Walter referred to Steve Rajeff's style here. I had a close look at quite some videos I made of him in Norway.
First of all we all have one thing in common: One cast we may finish line hand pull just at RSP and the next casts it may differ significant. Since we are no robots we can't tell exactly what we are doing without mentioning to have more or less of a significant standard deviation.
Anyway I tried to take a representative final shoot of Steve here:

Image

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Bernd
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#13

Post by Ben_d » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:48 pm

Hi Bernd,

I'd suggest that Steve was aiming to release at that point, just at or even slightly before RSP 1.

That is what I now aim for when casting a head, not stopping the rod and no stop of the line hand. I'm aiming to open the hand but follow through with it so there is no deceleration in the haul. Where I release relative to the butt angle sets trajectory and I just keep turning the rod until the head of the line is well on its way, again no deleceration until the line is away and flying. Thanks Lasse! :cool:

I've not played about with this much with a full line but with heads it is working well for me, no reason to think that it wouldn't send a full line a bit further too :)

Cheers

Ben

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Lasse Karlsson
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#14

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:41 pm

Ben_d wrote:
Thanks Lasse! :cool:


Cheers

Ben
You're most welcome Ben :)

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Bernd Ziesche
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#15

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:56 pm

Hi Ben,
that is what I do, too. Makes a lot of sense to me. I came to that when realising that I could get a static roll cast travel 1,5m further if only I would aim to release the line before my rod hand (holding the line, too) was fully stopped.
I told that to Aitor a few years ago and he checked by slomo later on. In fact I was matching to shoot my line of starting at RSP1 instead of MCF as it was before and as it is for many casters here.

Back to the haul adjustment. During false casting an avg. length of line, how do you adjust your haul? Do you haul thru the stop (RSP1)? (back cst / forward cast identical or not?)

How about you, Lasse?
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Bernd
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#16

Post by TrevH » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:53 pm

Hauling through the stop ... I get best results that way too... But why? Is it a similar concept to the soft stop?

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Trev

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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#17

Post by crunch » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:36 pm

Perhaps "haul through RSP" solely accomplish that just before:
1. haul hand had highest velocity when forearm was perpendicular to fly line and
2. rod hand travel and
3. wrist "flick" had their peak and
4. rod was straightening fastest?

Esa

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Paul Arden
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#18

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:51 pm

I don't know Lasse, it's post analysis!
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#19

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:39 pm

Hi Paul

I said it before, but I don't think you peak after RSP. You might still be moving your hand, well I know you are :p But it's not really of any benefit, it's just hard to stop instantly and still get the same peak haulspeed you aim for :) Same goes for delivery casts. Nice to see Bernd's analysis of Steve. Especially because it shows what I've been saying for quite a while :pirate:

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Bernd Ziesche
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Haul adjustment, when to stop rod & line hand

#20

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:44 pm

Same with me, Paul. Never really did it on purpose lately. Did it long time ago and could not find much benefit in it.
Steve does it during false casting in his fc, too (sometimes). I think it's no big issue (unless you aim for tightest loops or highest distance), but (in general) I prefer to aim to hit it more parallel.
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