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Shooting Head Definition

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Barrio
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Shooting Head Definition

#21

Post by Barrio » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:09 pm

Svend wrote:Hi guys,
We've discussed shootinghead definitions on the old board where we had a chance to go into the history of the shootinghead. And i believe you can't really define anything without knowing its history.
There also was a companion thread on "Casting the shootinghead" which contains a lot of very good information too.
I'm not trying to steal any momentum from your thread Mike, it's just that there were posts from guys who have actually witnessed the childhood days of the shootinghead at the place of its origin.


Cheers, Svend
Hi Svend

Thanks for the links, I'd forgotten about those threads :blush:

I think you posted this in the end "A Shooting Head setup is a two part line system consisting of a head and a shooting line"

Anybody written that book, or an article yet?

Best wishes
Mike
Barrio Fly Lines : At the heart of your fishing ..... lies a great fly line!

Svend
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Shooting Head Definition

#22

Post by Svend » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:40 pm

Hello Mike,

Yes, that was actually Rudi Ferris' definition and it is also mine.
I'd still say that a shootinghead setup is a two part line system consisting of a head and a shooting line.
The so called integrated heads are shooting biased WF lines.
The longbellies like the MED or your very own GT 140 series (i've yet to try the new shorter version) are WF lines biased towards line carry.
A DT is just that, a DT. If you'd prefer to use it as a shootinghead, well you could use a tow rope too but it would still be a tow rope wouldn't it? Vice versa a DT would remain a DT even if you used it as a tow rope.

But i really like Lasse's LEGO analogy because it says the same thing as my own definition does, but ads a touch of playfulness which in my opinion is inherent to shootinghead systems on many levels.

With regards the book, i don't think so but i'd be really interested to know too.


Cheers, Svend

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Bernd Ziesche
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Shooting Head Definition

#23

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:28 pm

Lasse Karlsson wrote: So a DT with loops at both ends is really just a long shootinghead named wrongly :yeahhh:
Hi Lasse,
I like your fine (and short) lego definition :).
Since you seem to like extreme examples :cool:
If you take an 18 feet DH rod and aerilize the full length of DT while having flat beam (connected by loop to loop) behind it, yes.
But the DT was not named wrongly. It just was named in order to hit the normal range of usage :p .
A while ago Sven Kalmar was holding a demo on Fehmarn:
22m DT - loop to loop - flat beam - system and then shoot it as far as possible. What was he casting a shooting head? (to me this is a yes).
Greets
Bernd
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Bernd Ziesche
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Shooting Head Definition

#24

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:42 pm

Ré_ wrote:Head attached to a fairly thin running line.
Ben_d wrote:
Marc Fauvet wrote: "Integrated Shooting Heads" is a stupid marketing term that makes no sense...
Not sure I'd agree with that, what happens if you splice rather than loop your head onto running line, is that also stupid? If not then an integrated head cannot be stupid either really :D
Let's imagine we would go on a trip to the Maledives. If you guys would have asked me to bring a few good shooting heads for you, you might be in trouble if you wouldn't have brought any shooting lines for you.
Otherwise you better should have asked for a full line or both: Shooting head and shooting line.

Simply I like to differentiate between a shooting head and a full line.
If I want the streamer express (3M) or the Striper line (RIO) I ask for a full line with a clear head.
Greets
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Shooting Head Definition

#25

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:07 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Lasse Karlsson wrote: So a DT with loops at both ends is really just a long shootinghead named wrongly :yeahhh:
Hi Lasse,
I like your fine (and short) lego definition :).
Since you seem to like extreme examples :cool:
If you take an 18 feet DH rod and aerilize the full length of DT while having flat beam (connected by loop to loop) behind it, yes.
But the DT was not named wrongly. It just was named in order to hit the normal range of usage :p .
A while ago Sven Kalmar was holding a demo on Fehmarn:
22m DT - loop to loop - flat beam - system and then shoot it as far as possible. What was he casting a shooting head? (to me this is a yes).
Greets
Bernd
Hi Bernd

Why do I need a 18 footer, it can be done with a 9 footer :) But sadly I had needleknotted the mon to the DT that was without loops, so according to you it was not a shootinghead :666:

Cheers
Lasse
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Bernd Ziesche
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Shooting Head Definition

#26

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:31 pm

Let's move it back to a more fishing based range, Lasse.
Usually people do not fish such thin monofilament shooting lines that would allow to us a needle-knot connection to the heads end, I think.
But not to drop of your point... if I have a loop on my shooting head and tie flat beam (monofilament shooting line) into this loop, it still is a shooting head to me. I just cut of the flat beam knot and change the head within "no time". And I do not have to cut of any of the shooting head which to me is the key here.
Fair enough?
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Ré_

Shooting Head Definition

#27

Post by Ré_ » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:12 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote: Usually people do not fish such thin monofilament shooting lines that would allow to us a needle-knot connection to the heads end, I think.
You can tie beautiful needle knots even with 50lb slick shooter/flat beam.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Shooting Head Definition

#28

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:41 pm

Hi Bernd

I have been needleknotting my monofilament shootingline to my shootingheads for the past 20 years :glare:

Smallest possible connection, less hassle... You should try it ;)
Besides, I do not change shootingheads that often on the coast, 95% of the seatroutfishing is done with a intermediate shootinghead, and I own more than one reel and spool :cool:

Cheers
Lasse
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Bernd Ziesche
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Shooting Head Definition

#29

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:52 pm

I have used that kind of connection when cutting down a shooting head to match it to the rod. It works but is a BITCH inside even wide rings. Not sure I would trust strength as well (depends on fish species...). Anyway it still is a SH to me though. You have one reel with a shooting line and a bag full of heads and then choose the one you want. Great tool kit for travelling especially.

What kind of sl are you using, Lasse? Can you make a picture of that connection? If that is the smallest possible one, I should indeed give it a go. But it must be different from the nailknot connection I added to the heads ends.
Thanks
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Morsie
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Shooting Head Definition

#30

Post by Morsie » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:03 pm

I can't go with the 'Lego version' at all. What about all those interchangeable tips on modern Spey type lines, those are Lego lines too. I just don't think that being interchangeable is the defining feature of shooting heads.

I had a go at defining them but there it becomes too unwieldy because there are so many exceptions.

Morsie

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