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Axial torque improves distance?
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Axial torque improves distance?
Hey folks!
I have a question that may have been discussed on the old board before but I'm (too lazy) er, unable to search.
Over the last few years I've had the luck to cast with an Irish "ap-guy" at MCI/CI meetings here in Florida. In addition to being a hoot, he was very helpful with my Spey casting, which I find fun but almost useless around here. One trick he mentioned, almost in passing, was torquing (twisting) the butt when the rod was unloading... which he suggested "stiffened" the rod.
Playing around with my single hand rods, I've gotten to where I can pronate my wrist while the tip unloads yet maintain my tracking and keep the line from curving. It sure feels good, and seems to actually add some zip.
I'm guessing that I'm adding some energy to the rod, and it has to go somewhere, so it could be adding some kinetic energy to the line. I can not do it (yet) when trying for max distance, so I can not really tell if it actually does add some length.
Is this for real? Or, am I just imagining things?
I have a question that may have been discussed on the old board before but I'm (too lazy) er, unable to search.
Over the last few years I've had the luck to cast with an Irish "ap-guy" at MCI/CI meetings here in Florida. In addition to being a hoot, he was very helpful with my Spey casting, which I find fun but almost useless around here. One trick he mentioned, almost in passing, was torquing (twisting) the butt when the rod was unloading... which he suggested "stiffened" the rod.
Playing around with my single hand rods, I've gotten to where I can pronate my wrist while the tip unloads yet maintain my tracking and keep the line from curving. It sure feels good, and seems to actually add some zip.
I'm guessing that I'm adding some energy to the rod, and it has to go somewhere, so it could be adding some kinetic energy to the line. I can not do it (yet) when trying for max distance, so I can not really tell if it actually does add some length.
Is this for real? Or, am I just imagining things?
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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- Paul Arden
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Axial torque improves distance?
Hi Mangrove!
I did start a topic on this last year or the year before. Basically the opinion was that the actual torque added nothing and was a myth. What it does of course is changes the way we use or muscles as well as the tip path, in ways that maybe beneficial.
Maybe someone can find the thread - I'm on my phone!
Cheers, Paul
I did start a topic on this last year or the year before. Basically the opinion was that the actual torque added nothing and was a myth. What it does of course is changes the way we use or muscles as well as the tip path, in ways that maybe beneficial.
Maybe someone can find the thread - I'm on my phone!
Cheers, Paul
- Bernd Ziesche
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Axial torque improves distance?
Hi guys,
for me it is no myth .
Menno van Dam once told me, that he twists the rod in the very last part of the stroke. He showed it to me and I could see the effect to his line pretty well. I copied and could feel the effect well, too.
Menno said he (that way) would give some rotation to the line, too. I do not believe in that. The line is free inside the rings. So I doubt we could make it twist.
What I (think to) feel is a speed up of unrolling. Personally I doubt it will increase the overall distance (when shooting) in general, but may help for unrolling a long line and have high tension in the end.
Would have to further investigate and to film to check for the exact tip path.
Greets
Bernd
for me it is no myth .
Menno van Dam once told me, that he twists the rod in the very last part of the stroke. He showed it to me and I could see the effect to his line pretty well. I copied and could feel the effect well, too.
Menno said he (that way) would give some rotation to the line, too. I do not believe in that. The line is free inside the rings. So I doubt we could make it twist.
What I (think to) feel is a speed up of unrolling. Personally I doubt it will increase the overall distance (when shooting) in general, but may help for unrolling a long line and have high tension in the end.
Would have to further investigate and to film to check for the exact tip path.
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.
The first cast is always the best cast.
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Axial torque improves distance?
If it is the same Guy as I have come across from Northern Ireland,it is no myth.
But I am still trying to get my head around it.
Also helps when doing positive curve casts.
.
Brian
But I am still trying to get my head around it.
Also helps when doing positive curve casts.
.
Brian
- Paul Arden
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Axial torque improves distance?
So you guys are arguing that the torque in the rod unloads and the stored energy in the twist creates more line speed? How how it was explained to me. Total nonsense!
Cheers Paul
Cheers Paul
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Axial torque improves distance?
Can't see that it impacts distance achieved either. Some German casters do that is only because of the way they have their guides aligned on the rod.
Be interested to understand the mechanics that support the premise.
John
Be interested to understand the mechanics that support the premise.
John
Axial torque improves distance?
If I point at my stop point with my index finger and then quickly rotate my hand, I find that I'm pointing at a new spot. I can imagine the effect on the rod tip from this could be quite large. So is it down to giving the (normal) rotational acceleration a boost very late in the stroke? (nothing to do with rod stiffening).
James.
James.
- Paul Arden
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Axial torque improves distance?
Yes that's what I think. There will also be an effect on tip path too, and you can use it to change the plane of the loop. Torque in the forearm yes and/or torque with the wrist. Torque in the rod - I think - is misleading. But in terms of actually teaching someone to do it, then it can certainly get excellent results. If that's what we're talking about then I teach it too, but I don't call it rod torque.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
Axial torque improves distance?
I don't think it has any effect as long as the rod stiffness is about the same to all directions. If it isn't, you can get to bad tracking problems.
Most probably know how to fins spine of a rod. The rolling doesn't require force much and the bending force needed doesn't really change much with changes of orientation.
Most probably know how to fins spine of a rod. The rolling doesn't require force much and the bending force needed doesn't really change much with changes of orientation.
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-Sakke
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- Bernd Ziesche
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Axial torque improves distance?
Hi Sakari,
I think we are referring to different kind of movements here?
If you think it does not have any effect, you probably think of this movement as keeping the tip in position during the twist of the rod hand. If so that is not what I was thinking about.
Just by adding a quick wrist in the very end of the stroke I can lay down a 90° angle in the end of my fly line. This of course will not come in by "no effect" but by the tip path I create by that twist.
When false casting I can add a different kind of twist just to speed up the unrolling of the line. I am pretty sure I add a pull to the rod-leg here.
James is right in "the new spot" for the tip by quick rotation of his hand. That to me is the key point why this technique has an effect and depending on how exactly you rotate to change tip path it can be a quite significant effect.
Greets
Bernd
I think we are referring to different kind of movements here?
If you think it does not have any effect, you probably think of this movement as keeping the tip in position during the twist of the rod hand. If so that is not what I was thinking about.
Just by adding a quick wrist in the very end of the stroke I can lay down a 90° angle in the end of my fly line. This of course will not come in by "no effect" but by the tip path I create by that twist.
When false casting I can add a different kind of twist just to speed up the unrolling of the line. I am pretty sure I add a pull to the rod-leg here.
James is right in "the new spot" for the tip by quick rotation of his hand. That to me is the key point why this technique has an effect and depending on how exactly you rotate to change tip path it can be a quite significant effect.
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.
The first cast is always the best cast.