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The BIG THREE
Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik
The BIG THREE
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” — Ernst F. Schumacher
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
- Lasse Karlsson
- Posts: 5783
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
- Location: There, and back again
- Contact:
The BIG THREE
Vince, aren't most people nerds??
But good to see that flyfishers are of the chart
Cheers
Lasse
But good to see that flyfishers are of the chart
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
-
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:22 pm
The BIG THREE
Vince,
That is the maximum level of complexity that should be allowed for graphs in this section.
Even I can understand it.
That is the maximum level of complexity that should be allowed for graphs in this section.
Even I can understand it.
The BIG THREE
Hi Vince, great graph. It appears that I am more satisfied than a normal person of my age, but I have yet to achieve the peak satisfaction that he/she achieved earlier in life. It seems it's now just about me (a) preserving nerd-dom, and (b) hanging on to life as long as possible.VGB wrote:If we are having pictures, does that mean we can have graphs?
Seriously, I do like the graphic but would suggest "appropriate tension" to achieve "the cast I want"
regards
Vince
IANACI
Re: "appropriate". Yes I agree, you prob. need that word in front of everything below "The Cast I Want".
Bernd,"keeping the rod in plane" is what I want my students to do while shaping an open loop. So it would not have to be part of SLP. It also doesn't have to refer to tracking.
That's why I didn't use SLP - I just used "Tip Path" (Following Vince's comment read "Appropriate Tip Path"). Keeping the rod in plane (or not), and tracking (or not), are direct inputs that are aimed at achieving an intended/appropriate tip path. I think of the other four as being foundational (indirect) inputs supporting the intended/appropriate tip path.
To be clear, in demos and explanations to students, I start at the top of the house and work down!
W.
Lineslinger
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
- Bernd Ziesche
- Posts: 3436
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:01 pm
- Location: Whereever the fish are!
- Contact:
The BIG THREE
That makes sense, Will. Same as I do.
Nice graph, Vince
Nice graph, Vince
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.
The first cast is always the best cast.
The BIG THREE
Hi Bernd, Hi Will,
Bernd, I like very much your big three ! Will thank you for your great diagram !
It was mentioned by you both that a late rotation is an essential for a tight loop. Why ?
I think that the timing of the rotation is a “variant”, connected to the intended distance of the cast.
(I ask the question because, in my style, for cast at short and average distances, it is the opposite which is true — the idea being that, on this type of cast, more the rotation is anticipated, more you have the space to “compensate” it with the thrust and the follow through)
Thank you for your answers guys
Cheers
Malik
Bernd, I like very much your big three ! Will thank you for your great diagram !
It was mentioned by you both that a late rotation is an essential for a tight loop. Why ?
I think that the timing of the rotation is a “variant”, connected to the intended distance of the cast.
(I ask the question because, in my style, for cast at short and average distances, it is the opposite which is true — the idea being that, on this type of cast, more the rotation is anticipated, more you have the space to “compensate” it with the thrust and the follow through)
Thank you for your answers guys
Cheers
Malik
The BIG THREE
Interesting comment Malik.
I agree that for shortish casts you can rotate throughout the stroke.
However with beginners, at all distances, you see early rotation leading to open loops. If the rod rotates before it is bent it is very likely that the rod tip will rise thereby starting a concave tip path from the start of the stroke. I guess this could be reduced by dropping the hand as rotation starts, but that may limit distance eventually.
This is most noticeable when teaching roll casts.
It would be great if you could post some video of your style, it'd be interesting to see what you're doing.
Cheers
Will
I agree that for shortish casts you can rotate throughout the stroke.
However with beginners, at all distances, you see early rotation leading to open loops. If the rod rotates before it is bent it is very likely that the rod tip will rise thereby starting a concave tip path from the start of the stroke. I guess this could be reduced by dropping the hand as rotation starts, but that may limit distance eventually.
This is most noticeable when teaching roll casts.
It would be great if you could post some video of your style, it'd be interesting to see what you're doing.
Cheers
Will
Lineslinger
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
The BIG THREE
Thank you for your answer Will !
Considering this answer, with which I agree in a large part, do you not believe that the other formulation "rotation at the right time", which is also proposed by Bernd in his post number — which number by the way ? * — is better than "rotate late", even if more vague and less prescriptive ?
I would not go so far as to say: " short cast/short stroke/"anticipated" rotation — long cast/long stroke/late rotation" but I reflect about it. Work in progress...
You find some movies here : http://vimeo.com/simfly ("Anatomy of a thrust " illustrates well enough what I try to say)
Best regards
Malik
* It is useful to be able to refer to the numbers of the post, as on the old SL
Considering this answer, with which I agree in a large part, do you not believe that the other formulation "rotation at the right time", which is also proposed by Bernd in his post number — which number by the way ? * — is better than "rotate late", even if more vague and less prescriptive ?
I would not go so far as to say: " short cast/short stroke/"anticipated" rotation — long cast/long stroke/late rotation" but I reflect about it. Work in progress...
You find some movies here : http://vimeo.com/simfly ("Anatomy of a thrust " illustrates well enough what I try to say)
Best regards
Malik
* It is useful to be able to refer to the numbers of the post, as on the old SL
The BIG THREE
Yep, that's OK. A bit like Vince's "appropriate". That's why I just put "rotation" on the diagram.Malik wrote: Considering this answer, with which I agree in a large part, do you not believe that the other formulation "rotation at the right time", which is also proposed by Bernd in his post number — which number by the way ? * — is better than "rotate late", even if more vague and less prescriptive ?
Cheers
W.
Lineslinger
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI
"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart
The BIG THREE
... which I find, once again, very useful; thank's WillWill wrote: Yep, that's OK. A bit like Vince's "appropriate". That's why I just put "rotation" on the diagram.
Cheers
W.
Malik