The BIG THREE

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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#11  Postby Paul Arden » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:32 pm

If you change SLP to Intended Tip Path, then the Five Essentials work for all casts.
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#12  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:47 pm

Yes, that works. I did that for a while.
The "problem" (it's not really a problem) I had with it, is that my 6 essentials are all set to be able to control tip path or if you like to hit the intended tip path.

The same thing I did not like too much about the original 5 essentials:
4 of the essentials are all having the same purpose: SLP
and then SLP is the fifth essential.
Well, the truth is, if you hit essential 1 to 4 you already should have the tight loop and being close to SLP, right?

Ok it might help quite some students to try seeing the tip moving along that SLP. That's fine. That is why I have included it, too. But just not as one of the essentials. Same with the intended tip path.
If the student hits my 6 essentials he simply has the intended tip path.

It feels a bit to me like when we fail to make the student understand essential 1 to 4, he then may directly focus on the SLP (almost without using/understanding the other essentials).

Tight loop:
- keep slack line to a minimum
- smooth accel. to an abrupt stop
- small arc, just wide enough to create the desired line speed
- rotate late
- keep the rod in plane during accel and decel.

Result: tip should move close to a straight line path

Let's put it the other way round:
- move the tip along a straight line path

Ready, no more essentials needed if he hits that essential, right? :cool:

Does that make sense?
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#13  Postby Paul Arden » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:12 pm

What I like about the 5 Essentials is that it's a light that goes on;

1 SLP which is a result of tracking and other 4 coming together,
2 Proper sized Casting Arc
3 Elimination of Slack
4 Proper application of Force
5 Correct Timing.

To make it function with all casts replace SLP with Intended TP.

I see and teach it to be like Meccano. Ie it's a construct, which can be applied as a filter over any straight line cast (SLP) or any cast (ITP). Because the model is so clear and simple, I think it's easier to point out its deficiencies rather than teach something that may be more accurate, but less simple.

Even if we teach another model, we'll always have to explain this one.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#14  Postby Marc Fauvet » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:55 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
To make it function with all casts replace SLP with Intended TP.

I see and teach it to be like Meccano. Ie it's a construct, which can be applied as a filter over any straight line cast (SLP) or any cast (ITP). Because the model is so clear and simple, I think it's easier to point out its deficiencies rather than teach something that may be more accurate, but less simple.

Even if we teach another model, we'll always have to explain this one.

Cheers, Paul

:cool: the Intended Tip Path replacement makes it quite perfect imo :)

cheers,
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#15  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:56 pm

Paul Arden wrote:1 SLP which is a result of tracking and other 4 coming together,
2 Proper sized Casting Arc
3 Elimination of Slack
4 Proper application of Force
5 Correct Timing.

that may be more accurate, but less simple.


Simple is not always best, but best is always simple... I agree on that.
If SLP is the result of TRACKING (and the other 4 essentials) - which I agree on - wouldn't you want to include tracking into the essentials? Or do you teach tracking when talking about SLP as an essential?

1 Remove slack line
2 Proper timing: Wait for the line to unroll
3 Proper acceleration (smooth increase in rod bend) to an abrupt stop
4 Rotation at the right time
5 Adjust arc + stroke to: a) line speed b) trajectory c) rod bend
6 Keep the rod in plane during acceleration and deceleration

This (I think) is still simple.
Number 4 always brings the biggest wow in the lesson - especially for advanced students who 95% are not aware of when to rotate at all.
I could change number 6 into SLP. But I found many people understanding SLP by watching at the tip from the side and trying to move it along a horizontal straight line while loosing tracking significally. This is probably because of all the books show the SLP in just two dimensions seen from the side. Teaching them to keep the rod in a plane (or inside a red wall) has worked much better for me.

Anyway I could work well with your improved 5Es as well.
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#16  Postby Paul Arden » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:28 pm

I just say that no 1 is an action in itself [tracking] and a result of the other four. So yes I always mention it straight off. I have to be careful however, because when I ask for them to be repeated I sometimes get the answer "tracking" back for no 1. Which is not correct. I know that this is exactly how Bill looks it too.

It's never the whole class. It's a module within a class. What I particularly like about it is its structure and how it all fits together. Yes of course it's not real, it's just a stickman model. So I take it one step back and refer to it as a filter. But it's extremely powerful, teaches variable casting arc, how it relates to force and line carry, tracking is in there, tension and timing too.

I talk about rotation through the stroke and delayed rotation during Application of Force. Applied to roll casts, accuracy, distance and collapsed casts. I talk about variable Casting Arc, tails, tight loops, open loops as well as Bill's one foot at a time drill.

I talk about tracking and I talk about rod planes. I throw in a few exercises, particularly for variable Casting Arc and Force application. It's a good demo, and it's nice to watch light bulbs come on.

I can have a bit of fun with it too. Pretending I've forgotten the fifth one, or I'm going to charge them extra for it. I talk about Bill and our Texas fishing where he landed a fish without casting and thought it was a snake. And of course I have the sixth Essential as back up. The nice thing about this demo is I've given it hundreds upon hundreds of times and so it actually looks like I know what I'm talking about. It's good for teaching instructors too, because I can dismantle it.

Incidentally I show the tracking by stepping back and casting towards the group, with outside and inside tracking creating hooks. And I will explain that it creates a horizontal wave. The tracking drills I give is Steve Rajeff's rod butt along a wall (it's a Sage), drawing back along the length of line during the lift, dropping the backcast on a line on a football field and, depending on the group, I might mention picking targets for distance.

OK mate, I'm going to pack the truck and drive through the night to catch Giant Snakehead. Have a great evening :cool:

Cheers, Paul
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#17  Postby Snake Pliskin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:05 pm

ITP makes everything peachy for me. I remember a post curry night in Essex ranting on the very subject!
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#18  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:19 am

Paul Arden wrote:I just say that no 1 is an action in itself [tracking] and a result of the other four. So yes I always mention it straight off. I have to be careful however, because when I ask for them to be repeated I sometimes get the answer "tracking" back for no 1. Which is not correct. I know that this is exactly how Bill looks it too.


Hi Paul,
that's similuar to my experience.
In the end it is about moving the tip as close along a straight line path as possible. A straight line is straight in every plane of course. But when talking about SLP many people do not think in 3D but seeing the SLP horizontally (side view).
When you teach tracking that's bird's view. So it seems to be pretty logical that this might be mixed up here and there. Probably we have to take into account that our students may have read quite some stuff about fly casting besides the lesson...
In my experience the main problem in regard of SLP often comes by tracking issues after having taught the other 5 essentials already. That is why I wanted the focus directly on this issue in the 6. essential. It also sticks the students nose to it when being on his own later on.
About SLP they find pretty much stuff to read all over and it differs all the time. As you said, it easily can be mixed up.

Anyway I like your set, too.
I can feel you taiming the big SNAKE(head) right now :D

Good thread, thanks for your fine inputs guys!
Cheers
B
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#19  Postby Paul Arden » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:56 am

Yep, for sure, lots of pupils now have heard of the 5 Essentials, but quite often they don't realise that it's a construct. Many instructors don't realise this even.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#20  Postby Marc Fauvet » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:33 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:1 Remove slack line
2 Proper timing: Wait for the line to unroll
3 Proper acceleration (smooth increase in rod bend) to an abrupt stop
4 Rotation at the right time
5 Adjust arc + stroke to: a) line speed b) trajectory c) rod bend
6 Keep the rod in plane during acceleration and deceleration

Number 4 always brings the biggest wow in the lesson - especially for advanced students who 95% are not aware of when to rotate at all.


hi Bernd !
i like the no. 4 very much, thanks ! i would however fit it in with the explanation and demonstration of 3) acceleration because it happens at the same time.

with 1) just to be picky... :whistle: , just as there is no straight, i believe there's always at least a little slack so i personally prefer "Try to keep slack to a minimum"

cheers,
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