The BIG THREE

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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#21  Postby Marc Fauvet » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:02 pm

Marc Fauvet wrote:
Bernd Ziesche wrote: "Try to keep slack to a minimum"

hmmm, there's no Edit button. i meant "Try to keep slack to a minimum before and during the cast"

EDIT: there's an edit button now but not when i tried the first time. weird... :upside:
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#22  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:21 am

Hi Marc,
what is your definition/understanding of slack line?
Where does slack line begin and where would it be gone?
Thanks
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#23  Postby Marc Fauvet » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:12 am

hi Bernd ! i'm out for the day but will answer you as soon as possible.
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#24  Postby Will » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:56 am

Nice discussion for the new board.

I always did like a diagram (and it'll be good to test adding pics).
I give you Bill and Bernd's House of Essentials:
- I like tension, better than "slack". It gives the caster something to do (manage line tension), rather than avoid - and is v.useful in teaching Speys. Btw, I think slack is easy to define: If I move the rod tip and the end of the line doesn't move immediately, I had slack.
- I agree that late rotation or otherwise is crucial. I always get to it as part of the power application bit though.
- Yep, tracking/keeping in plane is just part of achieving SLP/ITP

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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#25  Postby Paul Arden » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:52 pm

(I think there is no edit button for the first 5 posts or so..)
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#26  Postby Hamish » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:19 am

Will wrote:Nice discussion for the new board.

I always did like a diagram (and it'll be good to test adding pics).
I give you Bill and Bernd's House of Essentials:
- I like tension, better than "slack". It gives the caster something to do (manage line tension), rather than avoid - and is v.useful in teaching Speys. Btw, I think slack is easy to define: If I move the rod tip and the end of the line doesn't move immediately, I had slack.
- I agree that late rotation or otherwise is crucial. I always get to it as part of the power application bit though.
- Yep, tracking/keeping in plane is just part of achieving SLP/ITP

W.


Nice Will, I like that diagram a lot :cool:
Talking about preserving (?) or managing tension makes more sense than avoiding slack, think I'll use that in the future :pirate:
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Re: The BIG THREE

Post Number:#27  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:32 am

Hi Will,

Will wrote:I like tension, better than "slack". It gives the caster something to do (manage line tension), rather than avoid


I like your idea to name the first essential after what we are looking for instead of what we try to avoid. Good point!

Will wrote:Btw, I think slack is easy to define: If I move the rod tip and the end of the line doesn't move immediately, I had slack.


That is exactly how I teach it. I ask everyone to watch the fluff while starting the arc in slow motion. Then I point out the wasted arc and the sudden increase in rod bend, when the full line tension arrives at the tip.

"Best possible tension fly to tip" sounds really good to me.

Marc made me think about the two theoretical ideals "SLP" and "remove slack line". SLP is no theoretical ideal for me. I don't think anyone ever will hit it, but if one will, it easily might cause the line running into the tip. I prefer to think of a partially straight tip path (during acceleration) or a slight convex tip path in order to shape tight loops.

To achieve "no slack" I think is possible and very good. Of course it depends on how one defines "no slack".

Marc,
I think a curved line can be without any slack at all (under perfect tension). So this still would match with "no straight in fly casting", which was refering to the line probably never being fully straight as well as to the whole tip path during acceleration probably never being straight, too.

Will wrote:Yep, tracking/keeping in plane is just part of achieving SLP/ITP


Will,
"keeping the rod in plane" is what I want my students to do while shaping an open loop. So it would not have to be part of SLP. It also doesn't have to refer to tracking. Tracking once was explained to me (here on SL) as being the straight tip path (during acceleration) seen from the bird's view. Casting in a 45° off to the side plane (think about an open loop again) would not have to ask for a nearly straight tracking at all. I may want the loop to unroll in exactly that plane, too.
Perfect tracking instead (I think) would ask to keep the fly-leg crossing over the rod tip in a vertical plane.

Does that make sense to you?

Paul,
can you change the allowed time for edit? If so I would want more time here. :cool:
(I opened the edit window, put in my edit (quite a huge edit) tried to send and then it said: no edit cause of time for that is over and the whole edited text was gone...

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The BIG THREE

Post Number:#28  Postby guest » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:02 pm

If we are having pictures, does that mean we can have graphs? :666:

Seriously, I do like the graphic but would suggest "appropriate tension" to achieve "the cast I want"

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The BIG THREE

Post Number:#29  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:03 pm

VGB wrote:If we are having pictures, does that mean we can have graphs? :666:

regards

Vince

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Yes please, but proper ones please :pirate:

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The BIG THREE

Post Number:#30  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Lasse Karlsson wrote:Yes please, but proper ones please :pirate:
Cheers
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