The BIG THREE

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The BIG THREE

Post Number:#31  Postby guest » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:36 pm

Image
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The BIG THREE

Post Number:#32  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:50 pm

Vince, aren't most people nerds??

But good to see that flyfishers are of the chart :cool:

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Post Number:#33  Postby Unregistered » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:53 pm

Vince,
That is the maximum level of complexity that should be allowed for graphs in this section. :pirate:
Even I can understand it. :cool:
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Post Number:#34  Postby Will » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:18 pm

VGB wrote:If we are having pictures, does that mean we can have graphs? :666:

Seriously, I do like the graphic but would suggest "appropriate tension" to achieve "the cast I want"

regards

Vince

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Hi Vince, great graph. It appears that I am more satisfied than a normal person of my age, but I have yet to achieve the peak satisfaction that he/she achieved earlier in life. It seems it's now just about me (a) preserving nerd-dom, and (b) hanging on to life as long as possible. :D

Re: "appropriate". Yes I agree, you prob. need that word in front of everything below "The Cast I Want".

"keeping the rod in plane" is what I want my students to do while shaping an open loop. So it would not have to be part of SLP. It also doesn't have to refer to tracking.


Bernd,
That's why I didn't use SLP - I just used "Tip Path" (Following Vince's comment read "Appropriate Tip Path"). Keeping the rod in plane (or not), and tracking (or not), are direct inputs that are aimed at achieving an intended/appropriate tip path. I think of the other four as being foundational (indirect) inputs supporting the intended/appropriate tip path.

To be clear, in demos and explanations to students, I start at the top of the house and work down!

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Post Number:#35  Postby Bernd Ziesche » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:46 pm

That makes sense, Will. Same as I do.

Nice graph, Vince :D
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Post Number:#36  Postby Malik » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:43 am

Hi Bernd, Hi Will,

Bernd, I like very much your big three ! Will thank you for your great diagram !

It was mentioned by you both that a late rotation is an essential for a tight loop. Why ?

I think that the timing of the rotation is a “variant”, connected to the intended distance of the cast.

(I ask the question because, in my style, for cast at short and average distances, it is the opposite which is true — the idea being that, on this type of cast, more the rotation is anticipated, more you have the space to “compensate” it with the thrust and the follow through)

Thank you for your answers guys :)

Cheers

Malik
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Post Number:#37  Postby Will » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:02 am

Interesting comment Malik.

I agree that for shortish casts you can rotate throughout the stroke.

However with beginners, at all distances, you see early rotation leading to open loops. If the rod rotates before it is bent it is very likely that the rod tip will rise thereby starting a concave tip path from the start of the stroke. I guess this could be reduced by dropping the hand as rotation starts, but that may limit distance eventually.

This is most noticeable when teaching roll casts.

It would be great if you could post some video of your style, it'd be interesting to see what you're doing.

Cheers

Will
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Post Number:#38  Postby Malik » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:41 pm

Thank you for your answer Will !

Considering this answer, with which I agree in a large part, do you not believe that the other formulation "rotation at the right time", which is also proposed by Bernd in his post number —  which number by the way :blush: ? * — is better than "rotate late", even if more vague and less prescriptive ?

I would not go so far as to say: " short cast/short stroke/"anticipated" rotation — long cast/long stroke/late rotation" but I reflect about it. Work in progress...

You find some movies here : http://vimeo.com/simfly ("Anatomy of a thrust " illustrates well enough what I try to say)

Best regards

Malik

* It is useful to be able to refer to the numbers of the post, as on the old SL
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Post Number:#39  Postby Will » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Malik wrote:Considering this answer, with which I agree in a large part, do you not believe that the other formulation "rotation at the right time", which is also proposed by Bernd in his post number —  which number by the way :blush: ? * — is better than "rotate late", even if more vague and less prescriptive ?


Yep, that's OK. A bit like Vince's "appropriate". That's why I just put "rotation" on the diagram.

Cheers

W.
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Post Number:#40  Postby Malik » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:00 pm

Will wrote:Yep, that's OK. A bit like Vince's "appropriate". That's why I just put "rotation" on the diagram.

Cheers

W.


... which I find, once again, very useful; thank's Will :)

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