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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

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Bernd Ziesche
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#61

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:03 am

Lasse Karlsson wrote:Hi Bernd

There isn't that much difference in rod bend, what most feel is the counterflex and the weight of the line, not the actual bend in the rod. Try and have a look at how much pressure we have to put on the handle to get 1/3 deflection on a typical 5 weight :)
I did the clip to confirm that. Bigger difference in stiffness will of course show bigger bend, but we're already looking at +50% higher stiffness here. I'm short on 9 feet rods with low IP, but will see what I can do. You should try it yourself too :)

Cheers
Lasse
Hi Lasse,
I agree the difference in the range of rod bend from one rod to another one (if not changing form the noodle to a Tarpon rod) is way smaller than most would think. And this (I find) is a very interesting point!

I will give it a try, too.
Have a 9 feet 4 wt. SP to compare with maybe something in the 8wt. section.

What these experiments really point out, is HOW FAST straightening happens. :cool:
Like Mike said: A millisecond and we run completely into MCF instead of RSP1 :cool: .
Reality happens faster than our slomos... :p
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

crunch
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#62

Post by crunch » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:51 am

Perhaps you should make another carbon rod more "bamboo like" adding weight to the blank so the difference would become easier to see. For quick test you can wrap a heavy line one or two wounds between guides all the way. However it disturbs hauling. More work but allows better hauling is to wind few tight wounds of lead wire or solder here and there and then tape it over.

Esa

Alejandro
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#63

Post by Alejandro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:40 pm

Gordy wrote:
I think the loop made with the softer rod is ahead of the loop formed with the stiffer one in that video because it had a "head start" in its relative position at MCF not because it was going faster.
It appears to me that the gap between the front of the two loops does not change a great deal up to the point they propagate out of frame. That would indicate their propagation speeds were about the same.
Is not the case. You can see in the picture how when loops are formed both are in the same situation.
The cane soft rebound causes a transient increase of the tension and the loop speed up. Acceleration is temporary, but enough so that the soft rod loop is, shortly after, clearly ahead.

We may also increase the tension down the rod tip toward the water when the loop is formed, and it is a trick that some fishermen make use to extend long and thin leaders. Also raising the rod tip can do the same, as is done in a tuck cast.

Clearly, all that can be done with a bamboo rod also be done with a graphite rod, except perhaps shake blankets. But it seems undeniable that the rebound of a heavy cane momentarily tense and accelerates the loop. Since this happens without the fisherman intervention, I still think this can help a bad caster to extend the leader.

P.D. I have six bamboo rods, and I fish with them occasionally. I never noticed significant differences when I fishing headwind.
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Bernd Ziesche
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#64

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:33 pm

Alejandro wrote: We may also increase the tension down the rod tip toward the water when the loop is formed, and it is a trick that some fishermen make use to extend long and thin leaders. Also raising the rod tip can do the same, as is done in a tuck cast.
Hi Alejandro,
I think we have to differentiate between:
a) speed of unrolling and
b) speed of the loop relative to the ground
I think increasing a) in the way you described (which I agree is possible and in specific situations helpful) means to decrease b) at the same time.
Pull-back on the rod-leg means speed up in unrolling but reduced distance in my book.
So we would have to differentiate between shooting into the wind or just unrolling a fixed length of line.
I agree that unrolling a fixed length of line works fine with a bamboo rod.
Does that make sense?
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Marc Fauvet
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#65

Post by Marc Fauvet » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 pm

hi Alejandro !

what do you mean by "shake blankets" ? it sounds weird... :D :laugh: :D

cheers,
marc

Svend
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#66

Post by Svend » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:09 pm

:)
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Marc Fauvet
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#67

Post by Marc Fauvet » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:16 pm

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Alejandro
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#68

Post by Alejandro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:41 pm

:D :D

Hi Bernd,

The trick only works, of course, when not shooting line.
I distinguish between forward speed of the loop, which would be the absolute velocity as perceived by the caster, and extension loop speed, that is dependent on the difference of the loop legs speed.
As you know, the relationship between the velocities can be expressed as (v fly leg) = (2v front loop) – (v rod leg). So if we pull the rod leg, fly leg speed increases, but the front loop velocity decreases. But that formula is a simplification of reality, it does not account speed variations due to tension changes. If I pull the rod leg at 1 m/s fly leg speed increases more than 1m/s.
In the case under discussion in this thread, there is little variation in the speed of the rod leg. The rod tip movements in the rebound are primarily verticals. In fact, I think, rebound form a wave and is this wave that increases the loop tension.
Typically an increase in the velocity of extension due to increased tension means less distance achieve if shooting line. One reason is that the flight time of the line will be shorter. Only when the line falls before has completely unrolled increase tension can help achieve more distance.

Alejandro

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Bernd Ziesche
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Bamboo rods. Casting into the wind

#69

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:42 pm

Hi Alejandro,
well said. That's how I understand it, too.
So the bamboo rod is not the best choice for a distance tournament but is a fine instrument for presenting the fly on an avg. fishing distance. Good point you put in here.
Greets
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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