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Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

Moderator: Lee Cummings

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#11

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:51 pm

I'm with Will here.
And Lee.

Try and see what you have to do to make it happen in all the other casts. It's a bit like tight loops and tailing loops, walking a tight rope and it only takes a little thing to change things in a big way.

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Lasse
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Lee Cummings
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#12

Post by Lee Cummings » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:24 am

Morsie
My post should have read what (cues) but thanks to autocorrect it said cures..
Im certain you didn’t answer this in subsequent posts so I could ask again. What cues (for your timing etc) do you use when casting RHU

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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#13

Post by Morsie » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:25 am

Good question Lee, and thinking about it - Visually and audibly the touch of the anchor, and a feel of tension in the D. I also look at the position of my bottom hand trying to mimic what the right side does. I did have some upper body rotation because for a while I was trying to watch the shape of the D but realised this was causing more problems through over rotation - and I do think this is a contributing factor. Its not hooking its just a lateral movement of the rod tip that's causing a misalignment. Now I'm squaring my shoulders to the target as my first move into the forward cast. When I can remember to do this it works nicely but the moment I think I should focus on some other detail I lose it again. As Lasse suggested so many moving parts. Unfortunately where I practise - on stillwater, its either a left hand session or a right hand session because of prevailing winds and the layout......so going from one to the other is difficult.

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Graeme H
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#14

Post by Graeme H » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm

Morsie wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:25 am
Now I'm squaring my shoulders to the target as my first move into the forward cast. When I can remember to do this it works nicely but the moment I think I should focus on some other detail I lose it again.
I'm certainly out of my depth here, but this part of your answer had me considering a closed stance that would prevent you from over rotation.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#15

Post by jarmo » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:42 pm

Morsie wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:01 pm
No issue on SS, Switch or Snaps. There's just something on with the other two.
In that case I would try the following to fix the double spey.
  1. Do the upstream sweep.
  2. Now imagine you are instead doing a snap-t, and have just completed the snap. Adjust your position to match this phase of snap-t. Observe differences.
  3. Proceed as you would in snap-t.

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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#16

Post by sms » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:49 pm

Snap - not enough traction vs force.
This balance can be adjusted with:
- less force on the bc
- more pause between bc and fc (let the d-loop stop and anchor straighten)
- eliminate creep
- lift properly before bc (to avoid piled anchor/make anchor straight as possible)
- avoid dipping bc (same reasons as above)

When you do things right, it is incredible how little anchor holds. And on the other hand, it is incredible how long (but) straight anchor can be used without much punishment on delivery.

It is all about anchor management. You need to let it straighten when it is pretty stationary. Then it will hold.

A ball chain will demonstrate this nicely. Lay it straight on a table and see how much you can take over the edge before it falls. Now try it so that it is “snaky”. No hold.
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Will
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#17

Post by Will » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:09 pm

I find the problem of Left side vs Right side fascinating. I've read most of the advice on this (I think): Let the right side teach the left side; Do lots of other things left-handed (!) etc. But no one thing seems to work other than relentless practice, and then I find "muscle memory" on the left side is much shorter than the right-side.

I have been working on my left-handed single hand casting, and that seems to help a bit... but DH is complicated by the need to simultaneously re-educate the right side.

For me there's a big mind-set thing going on. I have to think myself into left-hand mode. If I don't do this the right hand tries to take over.

I seem to be an extreme case of this. Lots of people seem to have no problem switching sides, and quite a few beginners actually do better on their non-dominant side. :evil: :laugh:

I know that I have the option of casting "cack-handed" - especially with lighter outfits, shorter heads etc. But it bugs me how hard it is to keep on top of the LHU side of things! :)
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Morsie
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#18

Post by Morsie » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:03 pm

I use a closed stance Graeme but you still want to take a look at your anchor. Its coming around square while the D is forming that seems to matter rather than straightening up with the forward cast if you see what I mean.

Wil,l you're dead right with this left v right thing and I guess the older you get the more difficult it is to teach the left. You are also right in that what you learn on the left doesn't seem to stick, to to the point where I think I have dementia on the days when it feels so remote, yet the day before it was so familiar for a while. I actually started out pretty well on my left and its gone downhill from there.

Sakke you are also dead right. I am amazed at how some anchors hold when there's so little to them and they don't seem to move one bit. Something Lasse said a while ago has finally dropped, and I think the real skill of this game is trying to create straight lines out of curves. Ain't easy.

Hey Jarmo, good point. The snap T at THCI level uses the long belly line and therefore you sweep the rod tip right around to the bank. THEN the first movement is outwards (straight not curved) so you can come back into the Dloop (straightish not curved) whereas my double spey tends to come round in a full curve........hmmmm.

Cheers guys.

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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:14 am

Hi Morsie,

There are two things here. One was something I learned from Lee and it’s been the best piece of advice I’ve had on Spey casting and that is to watch the end of the flyline from the lift through to anchor. If you follow it with your eyes you can actually learn to control how and where it lands.

I’m assuming that you are left hand up for the left side and not some cross body technique that I’ve seen sometimes? In which case closed stance on right should mirror closed stance on left. Positioning the feet at the target should be the beginning of every cast.

Cheers, Paul
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Lee Cummings
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Re: Rice Bubble cast, Snap, Crack, and Pop

#20

Post by Lee Cummings » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:13 am

I was once asked (Where are your eyes?)

Sounded like a silly question (they are in my head of course) but where are they looking all the time I’m casting? This was a penny drop moment which gave me the best avenue to work on when my LHU needed bringing up the level of my RHU casting.

LHU v RHU, my eyes (and my casts) were comparatively (all over the place). They still can be, if I forget to watch what I taught myself, in that - the far end of the line is the crux of the problem in Spey casting.

Seeking to control the end of the line correctly, from the initial lift right up to final anchor formation simply works best by watching it.

Ultimately, I made teaching lines with very bright anchor sections welded to them for students to learn how to control by watching the outcome all the time as they adjust their movements.

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