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Micro Skagit/Spey

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Ed Ward
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:49 am

Micro Skagit/Spey

#1

Post by Ed Ward » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:20 pm

Thought it might be entertaining to expose a vid of Skagit casting to the members of this site. Could be several interesting topics for discussion to be observed here. Since I am not web-tech savvy, the vid can be found by entering a search for "Micro Skagit". The vid will then be found under the "Spey Casting - Micro Skagit SAS, 9' 4/5 Weight Singlehanded Fly..." heading. Perhaps someone here can "link it in"?
A bit of "history" on the vid. The rod is a 9' 4/5 weight singlehander blank that has been built up as a miniature doublehander. The line is a "custom" prototype Skagit belly of 200 grains that we are playing around with. Added on to that is a "custom cut" all-floating tip that weighs around 50ish grains. Casts range from about 45', on out to about 70' at the longest. Flies being cast range from a size 6 October Caddis type surface waker, on up to a 2" long, weighted, rubber-legged streamer. The purpose of the vid is to demonstrate the viability of angling with "micro small" doublehanders.

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Rich Knoles
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#2

Post by Rich Knoles » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:33 pm

Got it here for you, Ed. How do you guys hold your beers fishing with two hands?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_pzl_PKig

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Marc Fauvet
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#3

Post by Marc Fauvet » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:15 pm

are you slapping the rod tip on the water to attract the fish ?

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grunde
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#4

Post by grunde » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Guess it will be fun to cast that kind of lines singlehanded as well? (tight spots, heavy flies) What's the specifications for the line? And where can we get it? :-)

Cheers,
Grunde
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful."
George E. P. Box

Always question the assumptions!

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Viking Lars
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

Micro Skagit/Spey

#5

Post by Viking Lars » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:00 pm

Thanks, Ed! Interesting stuff - one questions springs to mind: Why use two hands on such a light weight outfit (and loose the benefit of the double haul)?

Lars

Ben_d
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Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Micro Skagit/Spey

#6

Post by Ben_d » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:13 pm

Viking Lars wrote:Thanks, Ed! Interesting stuff - one questions springs to mind: Why use two hands on such a light weight outfit (and loose the benefit of the double haul)?

Lars
Been thinking about this since I watched the clip and have the same question as Lars. It does look like a fun set up to cast but why would you use a 9' rod two handed to throw a 200ish grain head? I've been fishing home made stuff like that for years on single handed rods for salmon on small rivers here. Generally 24' heads chopped from #10 or 11DT fished on 9'6" rods rated for #6 lines, these will carry a 1" Cu tube or decent sized Sunray shadow and a fast poly or T tip to the same distance.

Cheers

Ben

Ed Ward
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#7

Post by Ed Ward » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:16 am

Rich,
Thank you for getting that linked in here! For beer drinking while casting with two hands, hats can be had here that hold two cans with straws that curve from out of the cans, down into one's mouth. Most any good fishing shop that caters to the NASCAR type bass fishin' crowd will have them!

Marc,
Interesting that you brought that up... quite frankly I had never noticed the rod tip slap myself. What I am actually doing, is concentrating on "driving" the line down with a bit of force into the water. This in order to get that particular line layout... a "upside down U" that extends the curvature of the line out well past the rod tip. I've found that line position to provide for powerful casting. I guess that when I am actually doing it, I am so focused on watching how the line lays out, that I hadn't even noticed the rod tip slap! So no, there isn't any angling purpose to the slap, it's just incidental.

Grunde,
The line is a prototype that we're in the process of trying to bring to market. I don't know that it will actually happen as we are finding that the costs of production, packaging, advertising, shipping and other support, are adding up to be possibly not economically feasible. I should have a solid idea by March 2014 at which time - whether we have a marketable situation or not - I will post up the particular dimensions/specifications of the line for anyone interested in building their own.

Ed Ward
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#8

Post by Ed Ward » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:39 am

Lars and ben,
I singlehand Skagit/Spey this line/rod combo for casts 40ish feet and under. I go doublehanded when casting further than that, or when throwing larger, weighted flies. I have found that 200 grains on this rod is a bit heavy for "optimum" singlehand Skagit/Spey (I do haul on these casts) for me, especially for casts beyond 40ish feet. However, that 200 grains has a very nice feel and seems to be a good line weight for casting a very wide spectrum of fly sizes, small to large when using two hands for casting. I prefer using two hands anytime I feel the need for more "power" in the casting. I would attribute the difference due to the "fulcrum" mechanics of casting with two hands versus one. If I were knowingly going to fish just smaller flies, such as size 10 and smaller soft hackles, I would opt for my 150 grain line. The 150 grain line is one that I can singlehand Skagit/Spey comfortably on this rod almost as far as I can with two hands.

As points of interest... cast #1 was done with a "damp" fly, a size 6 October Caddis waker. Cast #2 is a fairly large weighted streamer type of fly (notice splashdown of fly). Cast #3 is also a weighted fly (splashdown). Cast #4 is an unweighted wet fly. Cast # 5 a weighted fly> Cast #6 I don't remember, but notice that I "bobble" the cast during the Sweep (probably the runningline slipped a bit from my grasp), yet the line still achieves pretty decent turnover. Cast #7 is another weighted fly.

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Paul Arden
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Micro Skagit/Spey

#9

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:11 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_pzl_PKig[/youtube]
Nice loops, Ed. I guess I'm the same in questioning using a double hander for this in general but I can certainly see some specific uses.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Ed Ward
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:49 am

Micro Skagit/Spey

#10

Post by Ed Ward » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:43 pm

Paul,
I have a couple of reasons for fishing this way that may or may not resonate with other fly anglers. One is, I actually get more enjoyment from doing doublehanded anchor-based casts, than singlehanded casting. Also, using these "micro" outfits allows me to stay in tune with and even improve upon my doublehanded casting while fishing in situations that are not normally viewed as being doublehanded fishing situations. Also, as stated earlier, I have found that when it comes to casting flies or flies/tips that are pushing the general use parameters of a rod - in this particular case, a 4/5 class rod casting 3" weighted, rubber-legged streamers on a floating tip - that casting with two hands seems to produce for me, more power (once again, I attribute this to the "fulcrum ability" of casting doublehanded).

Taking into account the above listed factors, the main "technically justifiable" reason for employing this system for such a fishing scenario, is the primary one attributable to all types of Speycasting, to be able to make casts with limited backcasting room. The fishing exampled in the vid is for Searuns, the "anadromous form of Cutthroat trout, and this type of angling involves a lot of fishing in areas of limited backcast room. But, for the vid, those limited backcast scenarios also happen to be the ones having poor lighting for shooting vids (large, overhanging trees blocking out sunlight). So, we had to shoot the casting scenes in a more open environment.

The other factor I would like to add, is that on this particular river the Searuns average only 8" to 12" in size, yet often the best fly to attract them is rather large for such a size of fish - bulky, weighted 3" long streamers. Casting this type of fly on a "normal" 4/5 weight rod/line combo with FULL-FLOAT LINE AND 10' LEADER, singlehanded, is at the very least in my experience, a bit cumbersome. Notice the splashdown of some of the flies during the Set part of the casts... there are some cumbersome flies being cast, yet the casts are relatively controllable and precise with the exampled line system. Of course, a heavier class rod could be used to accommodate the larger, bulkier flies, but then, to me, a 7 or 8 weight rod just isn't much fun to use for chasing 8"-12" fish.

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