Release

[Lasse Karlsson]

And yes, you can creep without consequences, if you have a 5 foot loop in the bc and want a 1 footer in the front. Some would so it on purpose and call it forward drift

Cheers
Lasse

[Djordje]

Hi Aitor in this video I see that casters after creep have right CA.

I look at Creep:

1. If you have right CA and after that make CREEP - you will have tail loop
2. If you have bigger CA and after that make CREEP and got right CA - you will not have tailing loop

In this short video look like second situation.

Cheers

[Alejandro]

This issue of the relationship between creep and tailing loop seems never be clear.

In my opinion a tailing loop appears only if the force applied in a given time move the rod tip to descend and ascend, causing a traveling wave on the line.

Keep in mind that if the rod is rotating during the time the force acts the tip position change. Therefore we can not separate the rod rotation, or arc traveled over the time when the force we applied, and the intensity of that force.

It is the wrong relationship between strength and CA, at any time of the cast, which causes a tailing loop, not the strength or the CA. There is not a right CA, there is only one correct CA for a given acceleration at a given time.

The creeping, IMHO, is not part of the equation.

In http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tailingloops.shtml we read: “The main cause of tailing loops (in Texas) is Forward Creep. Forward Creep is beginning the forward stroke too early. Anticipating the forward cast would be a nice way of looking at it. Either way it sucks. Your backcast is travelling backwards, your rod tip is travelling forwards, the backcast straightens pulling the rod tip under the Straight Line Path and you throw a classic tailing loop.”

Guess what this video shows is because it is not made in Texas.


Regards
Alejandro

[Marc Fauvet]

hi Aitor,
is the guy in your video demonstrating creep or is it 'for real' (he's not aware of it) ?

thanks,
marc

[Lasse Karlsson]

This issue of the relationship between creep and tailing loop seems never be clear.

In my opinion a tailing loop appears only if the force applied in a given time move the rod tip to descend and ascend, causing a traveling wave on the line.

Hi Alejandro

I mostly agree with that, not really sure it needs to ascend, but that's for further study

Keep in mind that if the rod is rotating during the time the force acts the tip position change. Therefore we can not separate the rod rotation, or arc traveled over the time when the force we applied, and the intensity of that force.

It is the wrong relationship between strength and CA, at any time of the cast, which causes a tailing loop, not the strength or the CA. There is not a right CA, there is only one correct CA for a given acceleration at a given time.

The creeping, IMHO, is not part of the equation.

In http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tailingloops.shtml we read: “The main cause of tailing loops (in Texas) is Forward Creep. Forward Creep is beginning the forward stroke too early. Anticipating the forward cast would be a nice way of looking at it. Either way it sucks. Your backcast is travelling backwards, your rod tip is travelling forwards, the backcast straightens pulling the rod tip under the Straight Line Path and you throw a classic tailing loop.”

Guess what this video shows is because it is not made in Texas.
[vimeo]60314953[/vimeo]

Regards
Alejandro

I agree it's the wrong application of force causing the mishap. Never the less, in your clip you're making sure the creep doesn't cause you to apply the force wrongly, by opening up your arc significantly and throwing the loop in another direction that you normally would. BC is straight back, FC is downwards. Both have a tight loop indicating a nice almost straight tip path, in the intended direction. Meaning the first part of the cast where you where creeping didn't matter as you wheren't going to send the loop in the direction you would need that part for. If you hadn't "crept" you would have ended up with a much wider loop, just like Aitor's guy would...

Cheers
Lasse

[Unregistered]

hi Aitor,
is the guy in your video demonstrating creep or is it 'for real' (he's not aware of it) ?

thanks,
marc

I will just copy and paste the caption of that clip on Vimeo:
"He is what I call a "false beginner": years of fly fishing but without a proper casting technique.
This is the clip I shot before his first fly casting class. It shows that, even for beginners, creeping doesn't equal tailing loops."
So that is the way he was casting just before his first casting class.

This another example of the same issue but from a good caster. In this case I asked him to demonstrate a tailing loop due to creeping; he had to work for some time to get a tail on purpose. Creeping can lead to tailing loops... or not:

[vimeo]20162380[/vimeo]

So, in my experience, it is as hard for rookies as for casters to get tailing loops just due to creeping. Tails need something else to happen.

[Unregistered]

And yes, you can creep without consequences, if you have a 5 foot loop in the bc and want a 1 footer in the front. Some would so it on purpose and call it forward drift

Cheers
Lasse

Well, Lasse, to be honest to avoid a tail when creeping I'd rather get a 1 foot loop in the bc and a 5 foot one in the fc.

[Unregistered]

Hi Aitor in this video I see that casters after creep have right CA.

I look at Creep:

1. If you have right CA and after that make CREEP - you will have tail loop
2. If you have bigger CA and after that make CREEP and got right CA - you will not have tailing loop

In this short video look like second situation.

Cheers

I subscribe to Alejandro's explanation.

[Lasse Karlsson]

And yes, you can creep without consequences, if you have a 5 foot loop in the bc and want a 1 footer in the front. Some would so it on purpose and call it forward drift

Cheers
Lasse

Well, Lasse, to be honest to avoid a tail when creeping I'd rather get a 1 foot loop in the bc and a 5 foot one in the fc.

Really? What direction would you like to cast? 1 foot BC, level with ground, creep and cast downwards like Alejandro showed, and you get a 1 foot loop there too... trying to make that one into a 5 footer would be a very interesting exercise in a collapsed heap at your feet I think I might be wrong though...

Cheers
Lasse

[Unregistered]

Lasse,
Who said that the bc should parallel the ground?

What I know from experience is that there are fly fishers that are casting beginners who creep and don't tail.
The question is that, like that guy on the first video link, they don't know what creeping is. Most probably that is the reason why they don't tail. If I explain them that they must tail when creeping in order to pass some casting tests they will eventually tail, no problem.