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New SW line by RIO

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Lasse Karlsson
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New SW line by RIO

#31

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:32 pm

No problem....

And it seems like you are just making up excuses because you can't handle that kind of line :D

Feck, I throw it straight and to the backingknot quite easily, what am I doing so seriously wrong?????

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Paul Arden
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New SW line by RIO

#32

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:54 pm

Sorry Lasse I was answering Graeme's first post on the previous page. Shootings heads are different but obviously not general purpose fishing lines.

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Graeme H
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New SW line by RIO

#33

Post by Graeme H » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 am

So when does a shooting head become a general purpose line? When it's 31' long, 33? 35? Oh ,wait, 35' IS considered a general purpose line ... :whistle:

Stretch a 30' shooting head that's 2 line weights heavy to 37' (same head weight), market it as "loading modern rods quickly" and you've got the current trend in line design sorted. If you've kept the same head weight, the first 30' must weigh over the standard weight.

The Rio Flats Pro line that started this thread has a head length of 38' and it's a full line weight heavy for the first 30'. I'm not at all surprised by that fact.

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Lou Bruno
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New SW line by RIO

#34

Post by Lou Bruno » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:59 am

Graeme

My concern is we are seeing more of this...perhaps a new line weight standard is being developed.

Lou

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Graeme H
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New SW line by RIO

#35

Post by Graeme H » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:40 am

The one saving grace for consumers is that the lines they are making are working on the rods being sold. It's a good bet that if you have a 5wt rod and you buy a line sold as a 5wt, the two will combine well enough for the average caster. (... and perhaps make "the average caster" less capable than he was 30 years ago at the same time. :( ) At least it makes it easier for people to get into the sport.

I'd be in favour of scrapping the standard and adopting the method the two hander guys have got going, where the head length and the grain weight of the line is clearly stated. Put info about the taper on the pack or online and we've got enough to make an informed decision. The rod makers also put an expected optimal grain weight envelope on their rods and the consumer decides what's best for their own style.

It can't be any more confusing than the current mish-mash, where adhering to the standard is the exception rather than the rule.

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Graeme
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Lasse Karlsson
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New SW line by RIO

#36

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:35 am

Paul Arden wrote:Sorry Lasse I was answering Graeme's first post on the previous page. Shootings heads are different but obviously not general purpose fishing lines.

Cheers, Paul
Same still applies, they are all bloody shootingheads, a DT is just a very long one.

General pupose is about as moot as a standard head length line. My general fishing requires a 40 foot shootinghead with mono behind, shifting to coated and I loose distance and my fishing isn't general anymore, shifting to a shorter head, and I loose distance and fish ability, and my fishing isn't general anymore. Now I know thats not your kind of general fishing, so that line is of course not your general pupose line, but does that matter?

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Lasse Karlsson
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New SW line by RIO

#37

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:41 am

Graeme, my favorite 13 footer, has a recommended grain window of 720-780 but I prefer and use it with 540 grains... I tried a nice singlehander with the recommendations og 11-12 grams on it, it was something I would be very happy to use with my prefered long belly wf, where the head weighs 21 grams...
Yeah, putting on that window really makes it easier to choose...
Btw. the twohander also says 10 which matches those 540 well, and the single hander also said 5 as did the line...

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#38

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:33 pm

I don't think I've ever fished a DT as a Shooting Head :D

So lines get heavier, rods get stiffer. But they still have the same AFFTA number. Why not just make the rods a bit softer and keep the lines the same weight?

The line in question is a Salt Flats line. Now I know that SW fish don't always require the most accurate of shots and can be enticed to swim rather a long way, however sometimes you need to put it on the button. You need to be able to do that in all wind conditions and lengths from under your rod tip, to occasionally as far as 100ft. Does anyone really think that a Shooting Head is a good choice for Flats fishing?

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Graeme H
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#39

Post by Graeme H » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:45 pm

No. They are terrible.

The reason I brought up shooting heads in the first place was not to advocate their use but to illustrate one end of the spectrum. Shooting heads have all the casting mass in the first 30'. The other end of the spectrum might be DT lines, where the casting mass continues throughout.

Somewhere in the middle but MUCH closer to SHs are today's WF lines. As you imply Paul, those lines are not ideal for flats fishing but they sell because many Americans who go flats fishing only do so occasionally and need the easiest lines to cast. Those guys won't be trying to cast 90' to cruising fish. They are casting <50', so a short heavy head works for them. (US line makers are only catering for the US market and the conditions they fish in.)
So lines get heavier, rods get stiffer. But they still have the same AFFTA number. Why not just make the rods a bit softer and keep the lines the same weight?
Because a stiff rod will cast a mile in the fly shop car park and thus sell more rods. Few people ever tests rods for accuracy and feel in close before they buy, and even if they did, it would be probably with today's heavy lines (completing the circle of confusion.) They belt out a few casts to their maximum and if it's further than the rod they had before, it's a winner. :whistle: Then they get this new rod onto their favourite water and find out they can't cast in close and need a new (& heavier) line.

Nobody wants to admit they've bought the wrong rod and "uplining" would be a tacit admission of that. Line makers capitalise and sell a line that's a really a stretched shooting head to people who are only casting 50'. It's got the right line weight marked on it, so everyone is a winner.

Except the people who want to cast 80' in a head wind ...
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Lasse Karlsson
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New SW line by RIO

#40

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:05 am

So now we are at "stiff rods throw further" or what?
Shootingheads dont have all their weight in the first 30 feet, some are shorter and some are longer, and very very very few are 30 feet.
I like to throw 80 short feet into a headwind, most days I'd choose a shootinghead for that, but I guess I can't cast, and want heavy lines and shit :D :D :D

This is fun :p

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