casting 7wt. for spey work MCI

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casting 7wt. for spey work MCI

Post Number:#1  Postby windknotz88 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:12 pm

With the FFI adopting a new test which demands all spey work and roll-casting take place on water, I've switched my rod and line, and I'm thinking of recommending my students and aspiring instructors switch their thinking as well.

The conventional thought has been to use the maximum rod weight allowed (7wt.) and almost everyone recommends SA XXD line in bright orange, but I'm think that, especially for MCI candidates, this rig might be overkill.

1st, I think it is unnecessary to use a competition extreme distance line since the 85ft. cast is simply not THAT far and is a distance than can be easily reached with practice and just about any WF or even DT fly line, at least for Master candidates.

2nd, The second issue I have with this set-up, at least in seven weight, is that even with the extra long rear-taper, I find that the line "sticks" a little too much when casting on water, making spey work a bit of a chore especially. the line is just so bloody heavy and wide on the water.

I've switched my instructor set-up to a six weight nine foot rod spooled with RIOs single hand spey line. It easily reaches the 85ft. distance with plenty of reserve and I've found it to be far superior for water-borne spey and roll casting tasks.

Has anyone else noticed a bit too much stick and effort from performing water work with a 7wt in SA XXD?

Do you think it is wise to recommend a lighter weight rod and different line since the test is changing to strictly on water for the roll/spey work? If so why? what is your experience with this issue?
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Post Number:#2  Postby Paul Arden » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:36 pm

Personally I think 1) if a candidate cannot do the test with a DT6 then he's not ready and that 2) the IFF should specify line tapers to standardise the test. The AAPGAI became so complicated for the Spey requirements that everyone started coming along with single-handed Spey lines (The TT Nymph Taper is excellent - there are others), but they are clunky for O/H. Consequently they changed the requirements and allowed two lines - one for Speys and the other for O/H. The IFF is in no way as challenging as AAPGAI in Spey requirements where long belly lines are most definitely a disadvantage (Lasse and I both passed with such a line).

It's quite possible to pass all of these tests with a 5MED or RIO COMP Gold. I think I used a 5 for all of my exams apart from the STANIC where I used a 6WT (many years ago) and the EFFF where I also used a 6 (100ft distance cast which back then was inconsistent for me with a 5).

7WT is overkill for me and a candidate should bring along what he is going to teach with. The distances are not challenging and are not supposed to be. I'm sure that others have different thoughts, but the FFF has never been about tackle for me. When it becomes about tackle then there is either a problem with the test or the candidate. In all the exams I was part of even the distances were not critical - good form and good teaching being the most important.

I'm pleased that the tests are to be examined over water by the way, this was something for which I argued for many years.

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Post Number:#3  Postby windknotz88 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:56 pm

Paul, congratulations on your marriage by the way, she was a gorgeous bride and you looked quite dapper as well, have you seen the new exam's spey requirements for FFI? all distances have increased anywhere from 5-15ft., in addition to spey, double, spey, and switch, we now have to snake-roll, snap-T, and do off-shoulder snap-T. What is AAPGAI asking?

Why is it, mechanically speaking, that long bellied lines are an issue for spey work? I have experienced this too, but want to know why so I can sell it to my students.

Is there a specific six weight rig you can recommend with god justifications?
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Post Number:#4  Postby Graeme H » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:15 pm

I've been experimenting with various lines for the MCI waterborne tests and I keep returning to my DT6. I used it for my CCI and I use it for teaching.

On the water, I don't like the MED all that much: it works, but there's a subtle "lump" behind the front taper that must be moved with some thinner line between it and the rod tip. Very nice for the distance casts on grass though.

I've also played with the Ballistic Pro Performance. It's better on the water (no lump) but at 58', the head is too short for my preferences when doing the grass casts. When using it for those longer casts, I need to be mindful that I don't carry too much line before shooting to 85', and that just doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather just carry the line ...

What line or tactic are you adopting for the "raise a sunken line" task? Same line with a 7' Type 2 leader or a different line with an integrated sink tip?

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Post Number:#5  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:22 pm

Paul, has Frank hacked your profile?

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Post Number:#6  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:28 pm

windknotz88 wrote:Paul, congratulations on your marriage by the way, she was a gorgeous bride and you looked quite dapper as well, have you seen the new exam's spey requirements for FFI? all distances have increased anywhere from 5-15ft., in addition to spey, double, spey, and switch, we now have to snake-roll, snap-T, and do off-shoulder snap-T. What is AAPGAI asking?

Why is it, mechanically speaking, that long bellied lines are an issue for spey work? I have experienced this too, but want to know why so I can sell it to my students.

Is there a specific six weight rig you can recommend with god justifications?



Hi Brian

What casts have been made 5-15 feet longer, lots are still the same!

And longbelly lines are great for speys, if one can handle a longer head. The MED, the rio gold comp, the barrio GT125 and similar lines have got a longbelly compound taper, and its the compound bit thats the problem. Light line trying tp move heavy passenger in speys.

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Post Number:#7  Postby Paul Arden » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:55 pm

Thanks Brian!

I can't remember now but certainly Double Spey, Single Spey, Snake Roll, Circle Spey and Snap T all at 45 and 90 degrees and all done from both shoulders. I'm pretty sure they are to 75' but unmeasured.

A bit extreme but setting the high bar had the result in raising the standard. The O/H portion of the exam however was weak by comparison. 75' is close to the edge of what is possible for some of these casts.

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Post Number:#8  Postby Boisker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 pm

I was looking at the various test requirements the other day... speys to 65’, overhead double hauls to 80’...
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/f5e ... didate.pdf
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Post Number:#9  Postby Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:09 pm

It was 65 back when I took it too, as well as Paul ;)
But the 65 was measured out on land before doing the casts.
My overhead was to 85 of both shoulders, and I did them to a target ;)

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Post Number:#10  Postby Paul Arden » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:14 pm

That's reel to flyline not including leader, so yes probably around 70' - my mistake!
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