When teaching how to use the wrist...

[Boisker]

Interesting... i’m Still experimenting a bit with my grip.
But generally I use a finger on top )but just to the side), sort of a slightly modified 3point grip for everything on my natural right casting side and thumb on top for eveything off the ‘wrong’ shoulder. I’ll sometimes change over for a bit to thumb on top for overhead casts on my natural casting side as well.

[Boisker]

Paul... can not one grip do all casts?

Hey Dag... why limit yourself?
The main reason I change to thumb on top for off the ‘wrong’ shoulder is I find it more comfortable and perhaps more importantly far more accurate...

But yes... I could use the same grip for all casts...


Ps... I realise I am not Paul

[Dag Midtgard]

Not limiting... expanding through strength and control...

[Boisker]

That’s what makes casting so interesting... loads of ways to get to the same point

I don’t think there is one way to skin a cat... everyone needs to find what works for them, although it makes sense to me that changing grip can help with different casts...

One grip would be limiting for me... for ages I just used one grip, then perhaps 3 years ago started trying others... so for instance I find it far more comfortable with thumb on top casting off the wrong shoulder, particularly with casts like the overpowered curve cast, thumb on top makes it really straight forward off my wrong shoulder.... whereas finger on top/side isn’t comfortable and ‘handshake’ style I just don’t feel that connected to the cast so I lose the feeling of accuracy.

[Dag Midtgard]

Understand that Boisker...

however... one grip that is good for stability and mobility, not only in the sagital plane, but also the medial plane, I see as important for newcomers... and those with some experience...

Is this nothing that is duscussed in the different organisations that is «graduating» personal instructors?

Pros & Cons of the different grips based on strength in different planes, joints, or is this something they do not know about, or do mot want to go into?

[Boisker]

Dunno Dag...
I have slight hand arm vibration from using chainsaws etc at work, I think many of my choices of grip for casting in different planes have developed from what is most comfortable and puts least stress on my elbow / lower arm.
With certain grips on certain casts/planes I quickly feel a tension through the wrist & lower arm. So I can’t speak for how instructors teach (I’m not one) but personally I am certainly aware of the difference grip can make..... But I’d be absolutely amazed if good instructors weren’t fully aware of the impact grip can have and the range of choices available

[Paul Arden]

Paul... can not one grip do all casts?

Hi Dag,

Yes but some are better for different casts. For example:

The 170 forward grip I use is the rod held between thumb and forefinger with the rod being turned around using this third finger - the rod having been "cradled" inside the fingers and not the palm of the hand. That is a specialist grip that doesn't allow flexion/extension of the wrist but instead relies upon closure of the fingers.

For accuracy I use palm-forward V-grip. Which I find more comfortable than thumb on top.

For backhand over-powered curve casts finger up I personally find more effective and certainly for side-casting (both on and off shoulder) it feels more natural.

You can of course use the same grip for all but a good example of using different grips as an advantage would be 170 distance casting where I use a different grip on the backcast compared to the forward cast.

I have a video on this which will be live shortly. It's been uploaded to Vimeo but there are a few other videos to make live before we get there.

Cheers, Paul

PS I'm really enjoying our discussions Dag. I look forward to the day when we can cast and discuss these things in person. You are one of the very few people who have brought up the different mechanics of the wrist (it's been so long that I had to refresh myself regards the terminology!) It's a great topic - thanks

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi everyone.

It seems to me that wrist usage is one of the many paradoxes around casting. Some swear by a wrist as inactive as possible, others use a lot of wrist.

If you want to present the smoothest straightest loops in a fly casting demo for short to medium distance I saw the best loops being demonstrated by using very little (if any) wrist movement. In fact that's exactly what I do myself when aiming on having as few waves running down my loops as possible.

If instead you want to use an extra long stroke and a relatively wide arc for greatest possible line speed - all that while not ending up with a too open (collapsing) loop, using the wrist to position the main rotation as close to the end of the stroke as possible is a must do.

It's a great subject I believe because many instructors teach 1 but do 2 themselves!
l

There is a simple reason why it easily happens that instructors teach one while doing another themthelves: The number of "rod in their hand" days per year. Back to using the wrist in fly casting it is great to use it in a PROPER (controlled) way based on having learnt to control this. Learning to control the wrist movements needs practise thus it needs a fair amount of time. Once you master your wrist movements it takes concentration to truly keep the wrist nearly firm when teaching beginners how to use it very little for a starting lesson.

Back to the wrist..Steve Rajeff, John Walters, Joan Wulff all use the wrist .

Exactly why we see all these experts use wrist movement whenever they get a benefit from doing so. They have spent a hell lot of time to get it controlled. Nothing a beginner who wants to fish 5 to 10 days per year will manage to do him/herself. So teaching to keep the wrist almost firm may easily be a better help to these students.
Personally I always let everyone know what adding the wrist movements mean when being able to control them and what they mean when control gets lost to some degree.

Exactly Paul....his latest videos suggest rotation through the stroke as better.....

When I have seen Steve casting he often was using a pretty small arc (compared to others). The wider your arc gets, the closer to the end of your stroke I recommend to position your main rotation when aiming for tight loops.

Paul... can not one grip do all casts?

Of course you can use any grip for whatever you are going to do. But every grip has it's pros and cons in regard of what type of movement you are going to give to your rod. You can find exepert casters for all sorts of grips doing a large number of different rod movements in superb ways. The most important part is to master the grip you choose. That in my exp. is easiest to learn by starting to understand all cons of that grip first.

In regard of teaching I think one always should make sure to know what and how often your student is going to use whatever you based on that decide to be taught best (and first).

Regards
Bernd