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Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

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nicholasfmoore
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Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#1

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi all,

I don't see this one discussed a lot, and it has come about because an angler asked me a couple of days ago. He watched the Joan Wulff DVD and she mentions that she waits for the fly line to unroll (she does btw), and not the leader. Just out of interest, who waits for the fly line to unroll, and who waits for the fly line AND leader to unroll fully? A small nuance, but i found it interesting.

Some people teach to initiate the forward cast just before the fly line straightens, and some say to wait until the line fully unrolls. Thoughts on this? I do know it can depend on the student, too.

All the best

Nick
Nick M

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James9118
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#2

Post by James9118 »

As soon as the loop disappears (i.e. the fly-line is straight - not necessarily the leader) then the force that keeps the rod-leg taut also disappears and sag sets in. Sag contributes to BDB (Bernd's dangly bits) and isn't to be encouraged. As such, I prefer to go early - so long as the leader isn't cracking then you're good.

James.
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#3

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

What James said 😊

Cheers
Lasse
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Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685

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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#4

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Great stuff, James! Short and sweet 😀 If people do get sag do you ask them to try and start the next stroke a 'tiny' bit earlier?

Additionally, do you think the end of the leader/fly popping is a big problem? I.E. Not an almighty crack

All the best

Nick
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James9118
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#5

Post by James9118 »

I'd tell them to wait a bit longer - especially if I was in a casting competition against them :D :D :D :pirate:
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#6

Post by nicholasfmoore »

I like that, James. 😂😂😂
Nick M

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John Waters
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#7

Post by John Waters »

Hi Nick,

Are you referring to the front cast, back cast or both with your question?

John
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#8

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi John,

Both casts, but mainly the back cast :)

All the best

Nick
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John Waters
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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#9

Post by John Waters »

Hi Nick,

For me it depends on the objective of the cast. For judging the correct length of fly and leader required for an accurate lay down cast, I extend both line and leader on the front cast before beginning a back cast. If I know the line length and want to increase the tempo, I may begin the backcast before the line has straightened in front. Depending on the application and the gear, that may mean a fly leg length of up to a third of the rod leg, and no pause on the forward cast. That option is far more effective with heavy, dense lines than light floating lines. For the back cast, I always want the line to extend fully but the trajectory upon which the line extends is also a focus. For short casts I do not watch my backcast. As the length of line increases in the backcast and I lose control of the loop by casting with my forearm in front of shoulder, I then watch the back cast and attempt to have the line straighten. If there is a lot of line being carried it is difficult to sometimes see the leader so I focus on the line. At my maximum carry length, I sometimes have difficulty seeing the end of the line, let alone the leader e.g in very bright sunshine, but practice can help with subconsciously identifying the elapsed time on various backcasts, so you can mitigate against not extending the line on the backcast fully on those hard to see days. Just to round off the variations, for distance casts, sometimes I do not let the line straighten fully on the forward cast, before beginning my back cast, but that is gear and tempo dependent.
Lasse, James and Paul are correct though, the killer of loop effectiveness is sag. It is ever-present, the key is to minimise the impact. If my back cast sags too much, I try to get the line to extend in a shorter time. Your body movement and haul can help a lot with loop speed on the back cast.
Like all things, there are exceptions to every rule, for me the essence of casting is identifying those exceptions and developing a niche for every such exception.
I enjoy reading your posts, thanks,

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Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#10

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

How about neither?

I was taught and continue to believe that you should watch for a "J" shape or a "candy cane" shape in the line as the clue to begin the opposite cast. The reason for this is that there is a delay between when we think "move" and when our hand actually does move. Synaptic delay... we are not as quick as we think we are.

Otherwise, if you watch for straight, you will be aiming for the duck where it is, not where it will be when the shot arrives.

Maybe this is another thing due to age? I practice distance casting with leaders tied with fluorescent green mono... and I still cannot see them on a long carry.

Besides, most of the time, when fishing, i do not watch the backcast... my forward cast is based on tension felt in the line hand.

When demonstrating, I have instructed students to watch the line between my hand and the stripper guide so they can see the slack change to tension. When the rod is in their own hands, i tell them to watch for the "J" as a clue for when they should feel for the tension themselves.
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