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'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#11

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:59 pm

How on earth do you cast a bubble float without a backcast? Im very curious!

And ease, cutting a shootinghead from a cheap ass dt line always leaves you with the feeling of doing it wrong, and those guys and gals at the marketing company knows much better hiw to male the perfect optimal line for my 7 weight rod 😉 it will weigh exactly 16,78634674 grams as they really really knows what they are doing, not like that outdated AFFTA standard with a deviation allowance in each class 😉

And alot of people hate connections etc....

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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#12

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:07 pm

Put the bubble float on the ground and walk past it :p

Since the part of the flyline that usually wears out first is running line just behind the head, it would make far more sense to use shooting line which is easily and cheaply replaced.

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#13

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:27 pm

🤣🤣🤣🤣 you can do the same then with a flyline 😉

Yeah, thats one of the parks, but requires knowledge... easier to just spend money in the shop, and buy the brick, everybody and the kitchensink advice you to buy them on the net! Regardless of application....

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#14

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:50 pm

Of course we also need to consider the humanistic aspect of the colour change, rather than just the scientific ramifications eg. What about those of us who suffer colour blindness? Then there are the environmental considerations as well.
I never even considered that, John. That's a brilliant point! As Lasse says, it's probably best to leave it. Wise words indeed :p
Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:35 pm
Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:16 am
The whole point about a fly rod is that it doesn’t have an ideal loading point. 20 years ago we did imagine the bend running from tip down but that doesn’t actually apply.

Cheers, Paul
Blasfemy, blasfemy I say :D

My 7 weight rod loads optimally with 16,78634674 grams of flyline, and if I use something heavier, it is overloaded, less and it is underloaded and in both cases its not casting well! Mind you my warranty is vold if I use more than 17 grams, and if its a skagit taper the action of the rod is destroyed....



As I said, life is too bloody short for this crap....

:p
Lasse
Out of interest mate, is it white? it will go further with less huffing and puffing 😂
Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:32 am
I don’t understand these overweight “integrated” shooting heads. Why not just use a shooting head? It’s cheaper, you can cut them to any length you want etc etc. And if you’re still struggling to fly cast, you can always use a bubble float and forget the backcast altogether!

Cheers, Paul
What have i started 😂 I do get your point, Paul. More importantly, how do you cast a bubble float without a back cast? :p

I think that in the future good rods and lines are going to be harder to find. Don't forget to buy white lines, they go further with less effort ;)

All the best!
Nick M

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Paul Arden
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#15

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:45 pm

When I was in my late teens I used to fish for cod off the beaches and piers in the winters. Brrr. Anyway we used 6oz leads and I don’t think anyone considered laying the lead back constituted as being a backcast! :D More of a layback really. A full pendulum was banned off the piers because it was downright dangerous! I suppose that would be a sort of backcast...

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#16

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:14 pm

Think we've had this one here before:



Try missing the timing, the acceleration, the angle etc. And see if it works as well 😉

But we can go with your definition, and then we have an alternative to the bubble float, just speycast instead 😎

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Lasse
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:24 am

I don’t consider “layback” to be a cast. Not do I consider setting up a roll cast to be a “backcast”. Casting Stroke for me (in fly fishing) is accelerating the line with the purpose of forming a Loop.

It’s debatable whether the Dynamic D loop on Speys is really formed by a Casting Stroke or simply just Sweep. I’m not sure what if any are the advantages to describing it as being a backcast? After all, what is the primary intent here? For me it is line repositioning and not forming a Loop that unrolls through the air.

But if you want to call it a backcast you are entitled to :D despite that being a completely weird notion :p

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#18

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:32 pm

Accelerating the line in the purpose of forming a loop...
So making a loop that doesnt unfurl is not it?

Roll cast setup, accelersting the line slowly to make a D loop beside the caster

All speycasts, accelerating the line to form a D loop, single spey, snakeroll, aerialised snap T etc. All makes a loop either fat (D) or tight (V) in the backcast, all underpowered so they dont unfurl but sets the leader and a portion of the line on the water for an alvor to prevent the line to slip backwards after the forward cast has been made.
Double spey, snap T/C etc makes two underpowered loops prior to the forward cast, but for the same reasons as the other spey casts...

You're welcome to call it weird, even though thats a word usually associated with yourself 😉

When is a loop formed in your definitions?

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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:26 am

Loop: A moving length of line delivered past the rod tip, formed when the rod tip curves the line under or over itself.
Static Roll cast doesn’t apply.

Jump Roll cast could apply. I’m far more inclined to call that movement Sweep, ie the main purpose is to position the line. However I accept that you could call it a Casting Stroke. You could also call it a cheeseburger if you thought it would help your students.

When is a loop formed? Ie the actual point of separation between rod and fly legs? When the line at the front starts to decelerate and the remaining line overtakes this point. Non-hauled cast this is usually RSP or thereabouts. Hauled cast as we both know can indeed be earlier, at the conclusion of the haul on a 170 if it has early finish.

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Lee Cummings
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Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!

#20

Post by Lee Cummings » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:24 am
I don’t consider “layback” to be a cast. Not do I consider setting up a roll cast to be a “backcast”. Casting Stroke for me (in fly fishing) is accelerating the line with the purpose of forming a Loop.

It’s debatable whether the Dynamic D loop on Speys is really formed by a Casting Stroke or simply just Sweep. I’m not sure what if any are the advantages to describing it as being a backcast? After all, what is the primary intent here? For me it is line repositioning and not forming a Loop that unrolls through the air.

But if you want to call it a backcast you are entitled to :D despite that being a completely weird notion :p

Cheers, Paul
Hell :D

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