PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!
'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19600
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
once upon a time I had a different opinion
- Lee Cummings
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:23 pm
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
So what’s changed?
In Spey we try to install that you have one back cast to set everything up right and make the shot. (Of course it can be aborted, poked forwards and another D/V loop re rolled up) but that essentially is the back cast, these movements have the purpose of forming a D/V loop.
Agree that static roll has no back cast, just line slowly repositioned prior to fc.
In Spey we try to install that you have one back cast to set everything up right and make the shot. (Of course it can be aborted, poked forwards and another D/V loop re rolled up) but that essentially is the back cast, these movements have the purpose of forming a D/V loop.
Agree that static roll has no back cast, just line slowly repositioned prior to fc.
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19600
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
When you Sweep the line around is there a point in the stroke where you think about forming/delivering the D/V loop or does your attention stay with the line end?
- Lasse Karlsson
- Posts: 5786
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
- Location: There, and back again
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Whats the fundamental difference between a D and a V loop?
Cheers
Lasse
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19600
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
- Lasse Karlsson
- Posts: 5786
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
- Location: There, and back again
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Why is a roll cast excluded? How do you go from not moving your hand, to have it positioned in a different point in space and time without having accelerated it at some point?Paul Arden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:26 am Loop: A moving length of line delivered past the rod tip, formed when the rod tip curves the line under or over itself.
Static Roll cast doesn’t apply.
Jump Roll cast could apply. I’m far more inclined to call that movement Sweep, ie the main purpose is to position the line. However I accept that you could call it a Casting Stroke. You could also call it a cheeseburger if you thought it would help your students.
When is a loop formed? Ie the actual point of separation between rod and fly legs? When the line at the front starts to decelerate and the remaining line overtakes this point. Non-hauled cast this is usually RSP or thereabouts. Hauled cast as we both know can indeed be earlier, at the conclusion of the haul on a 170 if it has early finish.
Cheers, Paul
Aren't you forming the D loop in a rollcast by moving the line, stopping moving said line, the part at the tip stop and the rest slowly overtakes, formning the D and coming to a still, for the "static" rollcast?
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
- Lasse Karlsson
- Posts: 5786
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
- Location: There, and back again
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19600
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Straight tip path gives the V. Curved tip path gives the D. Generalising.
For the static Roll Cast I’m not casting a Loop of line behind the rod tip. Rather I’m sliding the line back along the water. Arguably if teaching making a backcast for a Dynamic Roll gets results then that is fine - and if your intent is primarily to form a moving loop delivered past the rod tip, forming the D, then that is all fine. The definitions are flexible in this regards.
However it can also be said that the entire movement is Sweep, ie the intention of repositioning the line, and that is the primary purpose - the D/V occurs of course. At what point exactly you choose to go from Sweep to Casting Stroke is an interesting one. Mostly I watch and concentrate on the line end. There is an acceleration but I don’t think I’m so much casting the line back as lifting the rod up to clear a space for the D loop to form.
Cheers, Paul
For the static Roll Cast I’m not casting a Loop of line behind the rod tip. Rather I’m sliding the line back along the water. Arguably if teaching making a backcast for a Dynamic Roll gets results then that is fine - and if your intent is primarily to form a moving loop delivered past the rod tip, forming the D, then that is all fine. The definitions are flexible in this regards.
However it can also be said that the entire movement is Sweep, ie the intention of repositioning the line, and that is the primary purpose - the D/V occurs of course. At what point exactly you choose to go from Sweep to Casting Stroke is an interesting one. Mostly I watch and concentrate on the line end. There is an acceleration but I don’t think I’m so much casting the line back as lifting the rod up to clear a space for the D loop to form.
Cheers, Paul
- Lasse Karlsson
- Posts: 5786
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
- Location: There, and back again
- Contact:
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
If the D/V occurs, you have made a casting stroke according to your definitions, which is movement with the intent to make a loop.
And since sweep is just a reposition of the line, it might as well be a casting stroke, I move with the intent to form a loop of a certain shape... actually, I move to move the line, then a loop happens as a byproduct.
Cheers
Lasse
And since sweep is just a reposition of the line, it might as well be a casting stroke, I move with the intent to form a loop of a certain shape... actually, I move to move the line, then a loop happens as a byproduct.
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
Got a Q++ at casting school, wearing shorts
- Lee Cummings
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:23 pm
Re: 'Ideal loading point at the tip of the rod'........oh no!
Sweep and casting stroke often blend, but can be separated.Paul Arden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:45 am When you Sweep the line around is there a point in the stroke where you think about forwming/delivering the D/V loop or does your attention stay with the line end?
Coming (around the corner) in a single Spey for instance, you know you apply more force at that point for the purpose of attaining a particular alignment.