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Line Friction and Line Tension

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Carol
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Line Friction and Line Tension

#1

Post by Carol » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:08 am

I understand that the reason some folks use the Chinese-style grip, or turn the top 3 blanks 45 degrees off alignment, is to reduce friction between the line and rod blanks. How much difference does it make and does it depend upon the finish on the rod and the line, e.g. whether it textured? Also, how does the line-blank friction affect line tension?

Thanks!
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:47 am

Hi Carol,

There are quite a few things in here. One reason I twist the guides outwards to 45 degrees and have done for almost two decades (even while fishing) is that if the line runs along the blank - for example with Snakes - I experience “haul lockup” where the haul jams on the forward cast. We are not sure how this happens exactly but it most certainly does and it’s very disturbing and kills the cast completely.

But you will also see problems on a backcast where the haul doesn’t feed easily without creating slack. So in both cases it makes a difference but in the first that difference is being able to cast with the haul timing and force that I want to employ and not being able to cast. In the second when teaching the double haul I often twist the rings out when slack appears.

Textured lines are supposed to reduce friction according to manufacturers. This may or may not be true but many years ago we had a shootout in Scotland with textured and standard MEDs and with results of about 30 casters or varying levels the standard line went further. Perhaps the ear muffs that were required for the textured lines inhibited the haul?

Line/rings friction will increase tension in the loop on a shot cast when compared to no rings. I remember a post from Steve Rajeff where he mentioned using thicker shooting line for this reason, in turn giving a more stabilised loop turnover. Mostly however I think we want less friction for casting full flylines and for this certain rings are undoubtedly better. (Torzites for example)

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#3

Post by Carol » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:52 pm

Thank you, Paul. Good stuff to experiment with. I think I have experienced haul lockup, though mine is more likely due to poor technique and a dirty fly line.

As for textured lines, I've read conflicting reviews about them, but your ear muff explanation works best. Have any engineers on the board done any testing?
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#4

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:12 am

No but I know Bruce’s engineers did, which is why I don’t dismiss it! They are better now but when they first came out they reminded me of chalk on a blackboard. I still shiver thinking about it :D

Haul lock up for me occurs with my best haul timing. Fantastic that you have experienced it! Many people haven’t!

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#5

Post by Carol » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:19 am

It's probably not what I experienced, just crappy timing and too much slack and I can't feed it back. Working on it.

Textured line on a click-and-pawl reel ...
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:18 am

Ah! Ok no haul lock up occurs while hauling the line down not feeding up. If you make a late sharp haul the line just locks, which is quite disconcerting. Everything jams.

When the rings are twisted to 45 degrees (or 90) this doesn’t occur. It doesn’t occur with lined rings, but I’m 96% sure (man memory) it occurs with single legs H&H - which would indicate that it’s the blank and not catching on the edge of a snake ring somewhere.

I suppose what we should do it try to isolate the problem by twisting different sections out and keeping the rest straight.

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#7

Post by Carol » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:54 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Paul.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#8

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:22 pm

Raised single leg rings where the worst, haul lock up on demand..... Luckily a fad that disappeared as fast as it came :-)

Sharkskin texture was supposed to give up to 7% longer casts.... That was quickly bunked. They do feel great lifting of water!

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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#9

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:28 am

Raised single leg rings where the worst
Damn! There goes my theory then :D
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Carol
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Re: Line Friction and Line Tension

#10

Post by Carol » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:10 am

Any idea why raised single leg rings are so much worse?
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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