wrist based rotation

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi everyone,

Why would adding further force lead to less max speed?

Because a relaxed wrist “flails” or flips over faster when it’s kept relaxed and the muscles are not engaged. Just like when throwing a ball.

Paul sais, that for achieving max rotational speed on the fly rod, he brakes his forearm and then has his rod hand flip over without further using any muscles in his rod hand, his wrist and his forearm.

I use my muscles to add my rod hand speed on top near the end of my casting stroke.

Paul likes to compare this with throwing a ball. Well, I have played hand ball and also played baseball a bit. First thing coming to my mind is the weight of the ball making differences. And then a fly rod - line system provides a very different resistance again.

Joan Wulff called the use of her wrist POWERsnap. I assume that was not because she just had the rod hand flip over without adding further force by using her muscles.

What's your thought in this and how do you speed up your fly rod?
Thanks and regards
Bernd

[bartdezwaan]

I am quit convinced that I am using the muscles around my wrist.
The reason I am convinced is because I had muscle pain around that area when I switched to the 170. Again after watching Berndt’s fast wrist rotation, I practiced on that, and had muscle pain around the wrist. Same happens when training for multiple hours straight.

As we are so focussed on a late and fast rotation of the wrist, I find it difficult to see how we can not be using the muscles.

Cheers, Bart

[Graeme H]

I'm also adding additional speed with my wrist.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

It’s very easy to compare the two and I would certainly encourage exploring the differences. Learning this has made a significant improvement to my casting over the last three years. Particularly for fast shots where I need to generate a lot of line speed in the backcast.

Cheers, Paul

[bartdezwaan]

Paul. Could it be that you just are not aware of the amount of muscles you are using? Maybe because, over the years, they are strongly developed and it just feels effortless?

Cheers, Bart

[Paul Arden]

I think there are some stabilising muscles involved, but it’s easy to contrast block and flip vs forcing the rod over with the wrist when casting. My focus now with OSD is to brake the forearm. Most people don’t do this but I’m convinced it’s a better technique. In fact most flycasters try to power the cast with their forearm or even complete arm – which is extremely tiring!!

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Paul,
I put a cup of tea on the roof of the car. Then I speed up the car. The cup of tea has the same speed (let's assume it sticks). When I brake, the cup of tea cannot increase in speed, but loose speed.
The moment you brake your forarm and main rotation did not happen yet (since your hand still has to come forward), what speed you think you have?
Rotation is king! The way you describe it, using your wrist can't bring additional speed by rotation imu.

I remember when we first met. Afterwards I had pain as had Bart. Because I tried to speed up my wrist as you did, Paul.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

I think that’s the wrong analogy Bernd because we are transferring momentum. If you are tensing muscles then you are attempting to drive the rod with the wrist, if your muscles are relaxed you can transfer momentum from the body. That IMO is how to generate higher rod rotation speed for less effort. Speed should be generated from the body and passed through the wrist to the rod.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

Paul, are you still generating rotation by closing your grip these days? It's not something I'm strong enough to do, but you used to cast with an open hand with the rod gripped between your thumb and index finger, then promote rotation by closing the fingers rapidly.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Hi Graeme,

I do but that’s a different technique (I think) from what I’m describing here. I’m not sure how that ties in at the moment.

I don’t think it’s strength incidentally. Where do you think the strength is? The grip?

Cheers, Paul