Paul teaching OSD and 170

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Paul,
Nice fp about OSD and 170 styled distance.

I had a quick look on the fine YT video you provided:

OSD:

170:

I see a compact arc, short stroke false casting followed by a wide arc, medium stroke delivery (OSD) and a wide arc, long stroke false casting followed by a similiar delivery cast (little longer stroke) you use in the OSD (170).

Main difference delivery = stroke length.

Is there a reason you don't use a longer stroke (while keeping the arc compact in false casting) in OSD?

What do you teach the difference to be about and what results based on the difference you teach to be the goal?

Both was what you call stop-less in the fc I assume?
Regards
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Hi Bernd,

The main reason a I don’t use a longer stroke length with OSD is because it’s unnecessary. Max carry for me is 86’ which with that stroke puts the head at the top of the loop.

The real difference between OSD and 170 IMO is the backcast. There maybe some small gains with body momentum with the 170 in the forward cast, and possibly connecting with the line while the body is already in motion. But I think the primary gain by far is the higher line speed backcast.

The carry can certainly be longer too (my max is around 94), but I find that too much running line at the top of the loop and it rapidly becomes unstable. Consequently I carry 88’ and increase up to around 92’ (tail wind) with that stroke.

For me I call both of these stopless deliveries, with the rod finishing pointing to target.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

I assume it follows then, you agree, that your delivery could be same for both as soon as you lengthen stroke a bit on your OSD.
That leads to the question, when and why you pick 170 over OSD?
I take it you want hls in the bc into a tail wind and then have to live with the extra carry in your point of view?

What really surprises me, that you seem to not cast further OSD when lengthening the stroke? Very different for me.
I teach to lengthen stroke and see additional distance all the time. This was in fact my own biggest miss before the first WC.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

How should it be lengthened?

[Paul Arden]

For me, the forward casting stroke length is the same for both those casts.

There are two ways to lengthen it. One involves reaching further back with the hauling hand. This sacrifices haul speed because it puts the hauling hand’s elbow into a more open position. The other is to step.

If you are advocating stepping then I totally agree. Not particularly practical on the roof of the boat however, but I will certainly be stepping for a competition cast. Talking of which, the 170 example is not what I am currently training.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

How should it be lengthened?

Keep the arc, but you may further stretch your rod hand arm and if you like you may add some "dancing" like Michal perfectly showed here.

[Bernd Ziesche]

For me, the forward casting stroke length is the same for both those casts.

Did you watch your own latest video, mate?
I think you stretch your rod hand arm quite more in the 170.

[Paul Arden]

Of course but that’s followed by Slide. Can’t believe we are still having these discussions after 20 years

[Bernd Ziesche]

When you slide, your rod hand starts to speed up on a higher level of speed, not in the zero speed position. According to my experience that supports final max speed. I would make a bet you had more line speed in the 170 delivery.

That aside, if you have more line speed in the bc, can you cast further with it?

[Paul Arden]

The real difference between OSD and 170 IMO is the backcast. There maybe some small gains with body momentum with the 170 in the forward cast, and possibly connecting with the line while the body is already in motion. But I think the primary gain by far is the higher line speed backcast.

To answer your second question, that’s highly debatable and a topic on its own right. Highest line speed 170 doesn’t always result in the longest forward cast. I think there are lots of possible reasons for this, but playing with backcast speed is certainly one of the things I do.

My opinion is that we are trying to obtain a certain line configuration on the backcast. Often conditions are such that OSD isn’t capable of achieving it with the specific line carry that we want, whereas 170 usually is. But sending a 170 backcast back always at highest speed isn’t what we want either.

Cheers, Paul