Cradle grip

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Paul, hi Nick,
Thanks for sharing your fine video about 120' distance casts. Excellent stuff!
Paul, you demonstrate the cradle grip to delay rotation on the fc.

You keep the rod horizontal everytime you demo the cradle grip in slomo or in a still. As seen above.
Then you say you hit your rod not before the rod butt passes at least perpendicular to target. Thus the rod butt is far off horizontal.
Now at the same time you want to save wrist based rod hand "let it flip over" for last (to delay rotation best as you call it).
Can you demo the cradle grip while having the rod in no more than a 90 degree angle to your RSP1 10am position, while saving the wrist based rotation for last?
I see quite a difference here as soon as you both (Nick too) start to fc in real speed.
Some stills would do.

Interesting Paul, how high you have your rod hand pass your shoulder in the demo. What do you thing at what height is the longest accelerational rod hand path possible, both straight and not straight?
Cheers
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Hi Bernd,

Now at the same time you want to save wrist based rod hand "let it flip over" for last (to delay rotation best as you call it).

Cradle grip and wrist flip are different techniques of course. For one thing the wrists are in different planes.

Can you demo the cradle grip while having the rod in no more than a 90 degree angle to your RSP1 10am position, while saving the wrist based rotation for last?

Yes I can, at least the first part. It’s not what I’m currently working on but I’m sure I can shoot some video.

Interesting Paul, how high you have your rod hand pass your shoulder in the demo. What do you thing at what height is the longest accelerational rod hand path possible, both straight and not straight?

Yes that’s what I’m currently working on. I think it’s a question about what position do you want to get into for the launch.

Since that video was shot I’ve had some very good sessions experimenting with what John has been suggesting. Or at least my interpretation of it.

I think this is very fluid at the moment, as the next video instalment, in part, will talk about. But I do think the best way to have people advance into this level is to give them things to explore. Not all the things we did perhaps, but they need at least to have the skeleton. You have to find your own technique, but to do that you really need to explore all techniques.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Excellent video Paul and Nick, very much enjoy your discussions.

John

[Bernd Ziesche]

Now at the same time you want to save wrist based rod hand "let it flip over" for last (to delay rotation best as you call it).

Cradle grip and wrist flip are different techniques of course. For one thing the wrists are in different planes.

Ok, that wasn't clear to me in that video.

Can you demo the cradle grip while having the rod in no more than a 90 degree angle to your RSP1 10am position, while saving the wrist based rotation for last?

Yes I can, at least the first part. It’s not what I’m currently working on but I’m sure I can shoot some video.

Would love to see that.

Yes that’s what I’m currently working on. I think it’s a question about what position do you want to get into for the launch.

I think the longest straight path can only be on shoulder level. Arm stretched 180 wise = longest.
A curved path can get longer, but ime is less effective in terms of speed relative to target.
Of course a higher hand position may have proper impact on trajectory, which obviously yet is another key to match to conditions.
Also force application has to be seen here. I apply force best on shoulder level. Like in a straight punch. Hitting a guy's face who is taller... not a good idea (in many ways )
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

For me it’s not about applying force to the rod butt in a straight line, instead what matters is applying torque to the rod butt.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Paul,
Torque is rotation. Obviously you use a lot of translation either. I think they both matter. Some even step forward and backwards...
What I find interesting is, that you want to further rotate the rod by your fingers, but deny to use any wrist muscles.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

The cradle grip is an interesting one. I liken it to clicking the fingers, it’s not a squeeze. It doesn’t take much effort. It’s nice that we have all these variations to compare. There is Ulnar Deviation on the wrist as you pivot around the thumb. I would never normally use the wrist like that.

Cheers, Paul

[Phil Blackmar]

Paul-

I'm wondering about a new grip.

I have not made a cast like this yet, but I did make some casting motions inside and the sound indicated there was significant speed. The grip is very similar to your cradle grip except the thumb is on the side of the gip instead of underneath on a forward cast. Have you tried this?

Thanks
Phil

[Paul Arden]

Hi Phil,

Yes, in fact one of the previous distance casters I knew, Ben Dixon, uses this grip. He generates very high line speed using it. I experimented with it for a while, and still do.

Cheers, Paul