OK... Rod configuration effect on the line?

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Just curious...

How do y'all shape your loops?

I mean otherwise than simple narrow vs. wide loops.

Like pointed vs. round, or curved, or over vs. horizontal vs. underslung, etc..

Doesn't it come down to how the rod is shaped right before and up to loop launch?

[Paul Arden]

Hi Gary,

Can’t you do them all with a rigid rod?

Cheers, Paul

[Vinny]

Gary
I’m not sure if this explanation of what I’m beginning to experience/feel is accurate but I’ll try. Paul tells me to feel the line and not the rod loading because I’m casting the line, I think ? I’ve also surmised from what others have eluded to, I need to feel the line not the rod loading and unloading. At first I thought “how the hell do I feel the line and not feel the rod load/unload”?
Well I think I’m beginning to understand this. I think you can make the line do whatever you want without realizing a deep bend or line pulling on the rod, I . Like you don’t necessarily need to feel the rod loading in order to form loops and deliver the fly. Doesn’t matter if you’re using a grand slam or a long belly taper. Doesn’t matter if you have 40 foot line out or 80 foot of line out. I think I’m beginning to realize that more by visual than by feel. I hope that made sense.
Although I’m visual learner, I rely a lot on what I feel when doing physical tasks. Perhaps I need to rely more on my site and less on what I’m feeling in my hand.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Hi Gary,

Can’t you do them all with a rigid rod?

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

Can you?

Cheers, Gary

[John Waters]

Just curious...

How do y'all shape your loops?

With the correct body movement range and sequencing. Always look for the drivers of movement.

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi Gary,

Can’t you do them all with a rigid rod?

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

Can you?

Cheers, Gary

Yes of course. It’s not very much fun using a poker, but absolutely. I think they all come down to tip path, line configuration at the beginning of the stroke, and perhaps a little bit of loop morphing.

Rod stiffness certainly plays a part. It’s easier to make wider *controlled* loops with a softer rod. And easier to make tighter loops with a stiffer rod. But both are quite possible for each rod.

Being able to bend a rod into 3 dimensions is useful for casting loop planes different from the rod “surface”/plane, but you can still do that with rigid rod.

Loops are about the rod tip path, and its relationship to how the full length of line outside the rod tip is positioned at the beginning of the stroke. The reason I mentioned morphing is because many of our pointed loops start off round.

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

In terms of my short casting , I’m looking at the rod leg and hoping it’s flat and the hoping the other legs stacked up over the top of it. ( tracking ok) I don’t mind round open loops as I get less crashes and they give me licence to adjust my path mid cast.
if there’s obstacles like trees near the rod tip or wind in my face I tighten the loop up but then suffer the odd crash into the rod tip, but, Iam a long way from being a decent caster in terms of consistency of stroke and that tends to be my biggest bug bear.
Most of my adjustments and feel come from adjusting power applications and line speed , whether I’m right to be doing that , I’ve no idea but it seems to be what works for me.
Pom

[George C]

Stumbling around in the fog of my ignorance, I’ve come to the belief that loop shape is determined by a relationship between where the momentum in the fly leg is aimed, where the tip is positioned relative to the fly leg as it ( the tip ) decelerates, and how much tension is created in the rod leg.
I’m hoping Graeme contributes his thoughts.
George

[Stoatstail50]

Doesn’t matter if you have 40 foot line out or 80 foot of line out. I think I’m beginning to realize that more by visual than by feel. I hope that made sense.
Although I’m visual learner, I rely a lot on what I feel when doing physical tasks. Perhaps I need to rely more on my site and less on what I’m feeling in my hand.

You’re going to get feedback from both Vinny. The issue is about how much and how accurate is the information you can get from each feedback source. In this context your brain is going to be processing visual information whether you prefer it or not. This is because you can’t “feel” the size or shape of your loop as accurately as you can judge by looking at it.

Feeling line tension as you cast or in a double haul for example, is a slightly different thing.

[Vinny]

Doesn’t matter if you have 40 foot line out or 80 foot of line out. I think I’m beginning to realize that more by visual than by feel. I hope that made sense.
Although I’m visual learner, I rely a lot on what I feel when doing physical tasks. Perhaps I need to rely more on my site and less on what I’m feeling in my hand.

You’re going to get feedback from both Vinny. The issue is about how much and how accurate is the information you can get from each feedback source. In this context your brain is going to be processing visual information whether you prefer it or not. This is because you can’t “feel” the size or shape of your loop as accurately as you can judge by looking at it.

Feeling line tension as you cast or in a double haul for example, is a slightly different thing.

I think I’m beginning to understand.
Thank you!