sparse weighted fly short cast

[Phil Blackmar]

I have run into a cast which is giving me problems and I am curious how you all approach it. The situation calls for a very accurate cast from 30-40 ft (as the cast gets longer it gets easier), with a weighted but sparsely dressed fly in the wind with few false casts with a very quiet presentation required while using an 8 wt outfit.

Methods tried-

overhead cast with small rod tip movements and a smooth slow haul produces nice tight loops and slow line speed but if the speed isn't perfect, the fly kicks either down or to the side. Any sort of check exacerbates the kick.

Sidearm horizontal loop kicks if speed isn't perfect.

Side arm underslung loop is quiet but having trouble with accuracy.

3/4 plane underslung loop same as sidearm. Nice entry but accuracy is tough.

Big loop produced by using small amounts of wrist and a pull down style without using a haul. It is an ugly cast but, for me, produces the best results.

With the wind blowing and need for a speedy delivery, getting the correct line speed to match the length of cast required to avoid a kick and produce a quiet entry seems very difficult.

Help

Thank you
Phil

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Phil,

I can imagine a scenario where a cast like that is required.

A great way to practice getting the required perfect tracking is on a wood floor of a basketball court, although a parking lot will work but is harder on the fly line.

You gotta get the line directly under the rod tip, and in a very straight track. Dragging it along a line on a smooth surface is a great way to hone that in. Once you get it sliding straight, add speed to lift the line up while keeping the loop as close to the surface as possible.

To turn it into a cast, start with the hand high and the rod tip low, with the palm facing forward. By the end of the stroke you want your palm facing up. That end of the stroke has a lot of "stab" qualities... but again, it has to continue in that straight line. Then, immediately after but not before, start a gentle reach inward to avoid collision of the legs. Lifting the rod tip as the cast progresses will keep the fly above the water.

It doesn't take a lot of power, just technique.

We used to employ a cast like that when drifting quickly across flats with the wind. We now almost always pole into the wind these days as it solves all the problems. But then, I don't have to pole someone with the wind resistance of a small sailboat mainsail!

Have you considered using a windsock?

Tight lines!

Gary

[Paul Arden]

Hi Phil,

How about side arm but with the loop vertically over the rod as opposed to under?

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I’m with Gary, include more control tasks in your practice routines. There are technical fixes with leader length and follow through that can take the heat out of the delivery but you don’t want sticking plaster fixes as a default.

Regards

Vince

[Taylor8]

For sidearm, try following the loop with your rod hand. i.e. make your cast and as the loop is heading toward the target extend your rod hand toward the target as well.

Same effect as shooting a bit of line but seems to be a little easier for those short shots.

It's a difficult cast regardless, especially with wind and managing line speed is key like you mentioned.

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi everybody

Great stuff. Gary-I can make the inverted loop cast about which you helped me when we got together last year. I find it an easy cast with heavier lines but in this case, the weight of the fly with no wind resistance, would still kick off line if I didn't get the speed just right. Your practice drill in intriguing and I'll mess with it in practice this week.

Vince-thank you for the comments and I concur. I tend to spend too much time on loop control and generation with longer casts while neglecting the finesse side of casting. In this case, I was wading, the leader was 14 ft, the fly was medium dumbbells in a sort of crazy Charlie theme, with wind and I didn't see the fish until very late. ...going to the eye doctor as soon as I can make an appt.

Paul-I need to experiment more with that cast. I am accurate from a sidearm cast making "c" with the rod tip which generates the vertical loop and control. My problem once again is entry, I'm. making too loud of a splash with the fly.....Just call me "stone hands" I guess.

Taylor-thank you for the suggestion. I had forgot about that "punch" cast. It generates very very small loops so the kick off line would be minimized......I will mess with that, thank you....

Extending this conversation a bit-this experience has me messing around with different deliveries that will be more accurate. As I mentioned, I spend too much time on distance and need to adjust to more targets and finesse. The last two days I have messed with a vertical plane, stopless delivery where the rod tip quickly changes direction at about 90 degrees instead of a stop. It seems like I can stay in touch with the fly longer providing more control rather than a quick stop and flick with the top of the rod. That produces the tightest loop which is good for demonstrations, but the other feels like it provides more accuracy potential....Thanks again for the comments everyone.

Phil

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Phil,

So... you were wading?

The cast I described we call a "worm burner". Isn't that a technical term from the world of golf?

It is very do-able from the bow of a skiff. It is significantly harder when standing on the water surface, like when standing in a canoe.

But you were wading? How deep?

With a long leader, sparse weighted fly?

Short cast that has to be accurate but delicate?

Why not try something difficult?

Please let me know what turns out to work!

Paul,

I think there is another technical term - one for the difference between a horizontal cast with the loop vertically above the rod leg, and a similar cast with an inverted loop. I believe the term is "plop"?

Cheers!

Gary

[Phil Blackmar]

lol Gary, you forgot 15mph wind. Yes wading, knee to mid thigh on me, waist deep on others?? ).

But at least I couldn’t see them worth a darn either.

P

[Paul Arden]

I think there is another technical term - one for the difference between a horizontal cast with the loop vertically above the rod leg, and a similar cast with an inverted loop. I believe the term is "plop"?

Indeed if the most gentle presentation is required then causing the fly to kick up slightly will allow it to land softly. But a tight vertical loop unrolling just above the water doesn’t have very far to fall, particularly if you “give” with the rod and line hand as Taylor suggests.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

But you were wading? How deep?

With a long leader, sparse weighted fly?

Short cast that has to be accurate but delicate?

Why not try something difficult?

Sounds like a normal days fishing

Regards

Vince