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What the fluff?

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Paul Arden
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Re: What the fluff?

#11

Post by Paul Arden »

So it doesn’t say and is open to intermediation. Nice that they have clarified that you can bring your own flies. The ones supplied were not palmered but instead only hackled at the front (as dries) with short clipped tails. They didn’t hover well and having well tied comp flies will definitely help. I don’t like the hi-vis tippet and think that’s a bit silly. But that’s just me and a lot of other people. :D

Cheers, Paul

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John Waters
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Re: What the fluff?

#12

Post by John Waters »

Paul Arden wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:05 am Hi John,

Is that 2cm tied in the middle or 2cm long? Site isn’t currently loading for me.

Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul,

Two cms long.

I'm not sure as to the reasons for the coloured leader. The fly rule change was copied from the Australian rules. We see colour differently so to allow any colour is a good thing.

John
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Re: What the fluff?

#13

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Paul Arden wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 1:23 pm I don’t like the hi-vis tippet and think that’s a bit silly. But that’s just me and a lot of other people. :D
Using a 10wt rod in a "5wt" competition, with a fly line that is >2X the head length of a standard line... is OK... but using a colored leader is silly? :upside:
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…

“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Paul Arden
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Re: What the fluff?

#14

Post by Paul Arden »

I usually fish DT for trout and mahseer, Gary, so the head is a bit on the short side for me :p I know it’s odd nowadays in a world where flylines are getting closer to bubble floats and spin casting but my first line was also a DT.

I’d prefer a softer rod and it would suit me much better, but I don’t know how you control that. And besides I can’t push for a softer rod because it helps me be more competitive :D

Cheers, Paul
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HenryM
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Re: What the fluff?

#15

Post by HenryM »

About how to measure the 2 cm. The verification of the fluff size occurs after casting. Virtually all materials will hang back from the knot after the rigors of just one or two casts. Hence, you are well-advised to measure from the knot to the end of the fluff. I guess it's up to you if you start out with >= 4 cm and tie the knot in the middle or you tie the knot 1 mm from the end and just have a one-sided fluff. I prefer the symmetric version - especially since I too like at some level of resistance by the fluff.

About the physics:
Wiggles in the line or leader always have more air resistance than no wiggles. That's pretty obvious. Of course, wiggles are essentially unavoidable. So we are really talking about the difference between "normal" wiggles" and "unnecessarily larger ones". One way to reduce wiggles is to keep tension on the line. The air resistance of the fluff is a way to provide the force on one end of the line which increases the tension (above the level that the friction on the tip of the line and leader provide) for a bit more smoothing. Of course, extra friction from the fly also hurts the distance (just like extra friction from wiggles). However, the lowered friction from smaller wiggles from a modestly sized fluff (apparently) is a bigger benefit than the downside from the fluff resistance. If you keep increasing fluff size, there is only so much improvement to be gained in the wiggles - while the downside of the fluff resistance keeps increasing. Hence, you can easily reach "too much fluff".

Henry
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Re: What the fluff?

#16

Post by HenryM »

About the colored leader:
As a caster, I can take it or leave it. I certainly don't blame anyone for thinking of it as silly, etc.

As a judge, I can see that there might be the occasional benefit of being able to distinguish the tippet from "other stuff that's happening at the target". For casts with a normal lay-down of the fly (nice and straight, with moderate or less force, ...) with a decent pause afterward, the color of the tippet doesn't enhance what's easily discerned. But if the caster smashes down the fly and leader (everything - not just the fly - makes a splash) and retrieves very quickly (maybe only due to tension in the line) or if the fly and leader fall into a small pile (folded backward, etc.) of if the waves a big or there is strong rain, then anything that helps me identify which part of the splash or pile or movement might have been the fly is welcome. After all, I want to make the right call (for both the caster casting and for the other ones competing against him/her).

As a rule maker, I feel responsible for making the competitions fair and as objective as possible. Hence, I am inclined to make the judge's job as easy as possible. So even if there is just one in 100 casts where it might matter, I pick an easily accommodated tippet requirement over not having done anything. Or - at least - I'll go along with such a rule proposal when someone pushes for it.

Does this make sense?

Henry
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Re: What the fluff?

#17

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Thanks Henri,

So there are no formulas for fluff vs. leaders, just requirments.

It comes down to personal choice and trial & error.

I expected as much but had to ask.

I have been playing around with fluff prototypes that more closely mimic real flies and wondered if I did not have to build the wheel from scratch.

Curving a fluff is easy - translating that to curving a weighted fly is not. And a lot of folks fool themselves until it is too late on the water. Confidence with the fluff is actually a deception.

Unfortunately, casting hookless flies on grass is a pain and the flies don't last.
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…

“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Re: What the fluff?

#18

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi Henry,

Thanks for your reply. I would have thought that now the rule changes allow for a decent fly to be used, that is visible and readily floats (as opposed to the flies we were being given to use previously) that judging the fly position would be less difficult.

Is this a ACA rule too?

Thanks, Paul
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HenryM
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Re: What the fluff?

#19

Post by HenryM »

Hello Paul,

Yes, with a decent fly, judging should be easier. But that doesn't mean it's always easy. It probably just means it's difficult less often.

ACA fly games do not specify leader/tippet color. However, ACA games require the fly to float and/or for the caster to wait until the judge permits the caster to continue (by calling "score"). This gives the judge more time to sort out what he/she saw/heard. The only exceptions to that rule are Bass Bug (with a sizeable cork as the "fly" - very hard to miss) and the Wet Fly game (which has become a bit of a step child).

Of course, if the judge can make the caster wait before continuing (typically just a second or two), it would be unfair to use time to rank the caster (even if it's just a tie-breaker). But none of the ACA games use time to rank casters. There are only penalties for using more time than allotted.

Some ACA casters choose to use a colored tippet (typically golden or high-vis Stren). In the fly distance games (often, but not always, done on grass), the yellow Stren tippet is used by almost all casters (at least the competitive ones). We WANT the judges to spot the fly as easily/quickly as possible.

Henry
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Paul Arden
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Re: What the fluff?

#20

Post by Paul Arden »

Sounds like a good case for some video assistance! That would certainly go hand in hand with broadcasting.

Cheers, Paul
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