The Rod Loading Red Herring

[Paul Arden]

Question: for those of us who sometimes use 5 meter leaders in 3 meter streams what rod is recommended?

It’s really about fly size, Walter, not leader length. At least IMO.

[Torsten]

rod loading = applying a load to the rod

[Walter]

I always liked Frank’s explanation of rod loading, “I apply a load to the rod and it bends”.

[RSalar]

Is "rod loading" really a concept that is still being currently proposed?

When I saw the subject I thought it was a subtle joke, in that the real "red herring" was suggesting that some folks really still believe it to be a legitimate concept in casting.

I have to admit that I have not purchased a book on fly casting for quite a few years now. They put me to sleep these days. But I continue to try to find anything new or current about fly casting on line. Obviously, or I would not have been reading SL for the last 20 years or so!

I actually thought the same about a topic on SL, brought up maybe a year ago, specifically about whether "bending the rod mattered". I thought that was not serious either... just a way to stir things up a bit by rewashing some old discarded clothes.

I realize that the concept was once common in fly casting books, and books do not deteriorate very quickly, so they may get picked up and read by folks in search of information. But, who reads books anymore?

And I do see a lot of on line videos of old school teachers, or young "fake it till you make it" kids who happen to have both a fly rod and a video camera. So, yeah, there is still a lot of archaic info out there...

But, serious modern up to date stuff is still thumping that old bible?

Really?

Where?

I recently took up learning how to spey cast with a two hander. I started with almost zero knowledge. I knew they used longer rods and they used two hands but other than that I was oblivious. I watched YouTube videos about "underhanded casting" and the difference between Scandi techniques and Skagit methods. Every single video talked about rod loading. I could post a dozen examples but you can just search for "underhanded spey casting" and you will find many. They pretty much all will tell you that by pulling with the bottom hand loads the rod better than pushing with the upper hand.

Cheers

[RSalar]

The only person I can remember arguing the point is Ron! But maybe that’s because he’s still arguing about it

Sometimes not bending matters

That's a good one Vin! lol I can't believe there are still people that disagree with me.

[RSalar]

I think a lot of flycasting “feel” that many people describe is not rod loading but rod rebound. It’s very pronounced as we can see from the two rods discussion. That may be tied to what many people think of as the stop.

Personally, while I completely agree with Mark that vision is our primary sense, I can’t help but think that we use it to develop the tactile sensations of the stroke. Whether that’s conscious or subconscious or both is an interesting discussion.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul -- obviously everyone is different. We can't know what another person feels. All I know is I do not normally look at the fly rod or the line while casting. That is not to say that I never look. I look if I'm trying to figure out something -- like where my backcast needs to go -- or to correct a timing issue -- but my normal casting stroke is done 100% by feel. And I can feel how much the rod is bending. If it is bending too much it means I am applying too much force or the rod is not stiff enough for the line weight. I do not like soft slow wet noodle rods. I have heard they cast just as far as fast rods but I seriously doubt it. There is a reason you tournament casters use 10 weight rods to cast 5 weight lines. And the reason is that bend does matter. You guys can philosophize eloquently about why it doesn't matter but then you spend time and money trying to get the perfect action for the newest 9 foot 5 weight rod. Like I mentioned in my opening remarks, if rod loading (bend / action) doesn't matter then just make one rod and use it for all line weights.

As far as the argument that "I can use a 5 weight up to a 9 weight depending on what I want the rod to do" goes -- that just proves my point that bend (rod loading) does matter. By changing the weight of the line you are changing the loading. You say manufacturers are making faster and faster rods and then we buy heavier and heavier lines to compensate. Compensate for what? If rod action / bending / loading doesn't matter why would anyone care if rod manufacturers are making rods faster?

Cheers, Ben D. Matters

[Rickard]

So rod loading is rod bending?

[VGB]

It does appear that Frank was a bit of a fly casting prophet. Like most prophets he became a martyr and will most likely be canonised if he lived a life of virtue and performed some verified miracles.

[VGB]

That's a good one Vin! lol I can't believe there are still people that disagree with me.

I don’t think anyone does Ron but it’s a profound statement without any information content, great for impressing girls at parties but of little practical use.

Regards

Vince

[Stoatstail50]

Anyway….the orgasmatron.

No one listening to the story was in the slightest bit interested in how it worked, what psychological process had been triggered or even whether it was actually true or not.

As a mechanism for engaging an audience it was brilliant but as an introduction to the actual engineering it was not.

So powerful was the story that anyone listening could imagine they were in Rome with Sid Barratt in 1968, tripping and in posssesion of a portable light machine with unique properties…quite a few I believe were wondering if it would still work in 2024. Almost no one was interested in the working innards of the gizmo, he could have told them anything and they would have believed it because their minds were focussed on other, more important, things

I really want to believe it, I like to think the story was true, kinda, he believed it anyway. Deep down I know it probably isn’t because the powers of accurate recall of an 80 year old hippy having an acid trip on tour with Pink Floyd in 1968 are quite likely to be somewhat limited.

Anyway, Ron, sometimes the stories people tell on YouTube are entertaining, delivered with gusto and authority and all saying much the same thing because they all believe it to be true. One big self appointed YouTube authority says it, or writes it in a book or a magazine, and all the other little authorities go “yeah, big A, said it so it must be true” and they all go off and repeat it again and again. Unfortunately, just because a lot of people say X=Y doesn’t mean that it’s actually true…just that they believe it is.