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casting a bamboo rod

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Paul Arden
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#381

Post by Paul Arden »

He’d have to be. Wading would be a challenge.
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#382

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Paul Arden wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 7:19 am I honestly believe that the main difference between casting abilities is the amount of time spent training flycasting. The second main difference is who you learn from, who coaches you and/or what circles you live in. For example if you are part of a team or club and train your casting, there is nothing to prevent you or anyone from being a first class caster.

If you spend 5 or 10,000 days casting then you are going to be bloody good! Or should be! But there are also lots of shortcuts.

Cheers, Paul
Agree on most parts here, only maybe add keeping an open mind, have met too many spending lots of time casting the same mistakes, because they where told to only ever move in a specific manner, because it where the supposedly the best...

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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#383

Post by Rickard »

Paul Arden wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 7:19 am I honestly believe that the main difference between casting abilities is the amount of time spent training flycasting. The second main difference is who you learn from, who coaches you and/or what circles you live in. For example if you are part of a team or club and train your casting, there is nothing to prevent you or anyone from being a first class caster.

If you spend 5 or 10,000 days casting then you are going to be bloody good! Or should be! But there are also lots of shortcuts.

Cheers, Paul
I do not know anything about luck, apart from that the more I practice, the luckier I get.
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Paul Arden
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#384

Post by Paul Arden »

There is no magic to this. Of course it’s going to help if you start young and grow up casting. But that’s not essential.

It’s also going to help very much if you are physically active. That doesn’t mean a professional athlete, but it does mean something. Expecially as we age. There are crossovers in this regards; tennis and badminton players are excellent to train for example.

I don’t believe faster learning is necessarily better learning. In fact anyone who thinks it’s a fast process may not be in for the long term. What it is, is continual learning. When we stop learning we peak, so it’s best to keep going.

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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#385

Post by Rickard »

Paul Arden wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:47 am There is no magic to this. Of course it’s going to help if you start young and grow up casting. But that’s not essential.

It’s also going to help very much if you are physically active. That doesn’t mean a professional athlete, but it does mean something. Expecially as we age. There are crossovers in this regards; tennis and badminton players are excellent to train for example.

I don’t believe faster learning is necessarily better learning. In fact anyone who thinks it’s a fast process may not be in for the long term. What it is, is continual learning. When we stop learning we peak, so it’s best to keep going.

Cheers, Paul
Any activity that leads the body to move as a unit must be a help here.
People that moves like Frankensteins monster/a robot will have a harder time to learn to cast.
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#386

Post by Paul Arden »

True but also learning to cast might also give them better general movement abilities. We have seen that in flytying with soldiers who have lost some of their fine motor skills. I’m quite sure that the same would apply to flycasting.

At the upper level, which is being discussed here, then some sort of athleticism I think essential, or at least extremely beneficial. Just take the haul for example; if you want an explosive haul then you need to be able to move your hauling arm explosively.

That said I think it’s mostly about fine turning technique. Otherwise there wouldn’t be 50yr olds a threat at WC level. Tor won the 5WT some years ago and he was 58 I believe. What that says about the sport, or the participants involved, I’m not sure. It might also be tackle restrictions which favour a 90’ carry and not a 120’ carry for example. Or a line that is relatively lightweight. Who knows? Eventually we might know.

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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#387

Post by Walter »

The peak age for athletic performance opens up a huge new topic area of discussion with a lot of scientific research as well as anecdotal information (making it perfect for a SL discussion). It’s going to depend on a number of factors including the nature of the sport, sex, genetic makeup, technological advancements, training advancements and psychological considerations to name a few. It does raise some interesting thoughts about short term vs long term training goals and coaching methods. Someone picking up a fly rod for the first time at the age of 50 and deciding they want to be a wc distance caster may need to take a different approach than someone beginning at the age of 15, but that’s also assuming the 15 year old is going to maintain interest for more that a decade. There’s also the question of how much does experience count for the given sport.
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#388

Post by Paul Arden »

It’s a very interesting topic for me Walter, and one in which I’m involved in of course. Currently I think all that is actually required is the desire and determination to compete, certainly with time and coaching, and one would not look out of place. But as in all sports the needle moves and I can envisage a time when that alone is not enough. The reason I think that is because some casters are just naturally more athletic than others.

We looked at this a long time ago when we thought about the British Team. Right now it’s still mostly about skill and technical execution. As well as performing under pressure. Arguably, unfortunately, luck and conditions often continue to dominate. But in the future if we had strength training, nutrition, stretching and mobility programmes, as well as training technique and mental preparation, then I believe we would be having a different discussion.

This is happening. And I certainly see this as becoming more significant. It’s unthinkable that this wouldn’t be the case in a throwing sport. There are continual technical advances and the past 25 years has seen very significant advances that are still in progress.

It comes down to how serious is the athlete and the lifestyle choices that they are prepared to make. If they come from a sporting background, as many do, then strength and nutrition is already in place. I would actually go as far as to say that if they don’t go to the gym then they are risking injury and are not going to reach their maximum potential.

The timeline to become world class distance caster is much quicker than you think. It can be done in a matter of years. I would think it’s quite possible to go from non caster to finalist in the WCs in three years. It would take dedication, athleticism, coaching and a hell or a lot of specific training. Few come in that way of course and most come in through fishing, casting around 70’, which will make it quicker to be competitive and around two years. They won’t have reached their best ability in this time, but they will be a strong threat in the championships.

What we lack in this sport is competitions. If we had more competitions I think the ability to perform would be higher. Competing regularly gives the athlete a significant advantage. We see that in places where competitions are more frequent, but even there they should be competing more often.

Cheers, Paul
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Walter
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#389

Post by Walter »

Some really good points Paul. I think the nature of the sport (I’m thinking of distance casting particularly but accuracy as well) itself makes a difference as well because it’s not what I consider a mature sport. I know it has been around for a while but it hasn’t had the same level of intensity associated with it like an Olympic sport or chess or something where money is involved. There isn’t the same level of scientific study devoted to it either.

That makes me wonder about the future of the sport and age related performance. Imagine that it became more mainstream, possibly even an Olympic event with monetary prizes on the line, would we then see athletes peak at a specific age range like 30 to 40 and then move into a masters category after that? What sort of thing would scouts be looking for in younger athletes? A discussion I had with a former Polish sprint coach is that when looking at high school level sprinters they usually didn’t consider the top level people in that age group. They specifically looked for people who were underdeveloped physically but consistently finishing in the top six at that level. The idea being that the people who were finishing first or second were already at their personal peak and weren’t likely to get better. The skinny ones were still maturing and had many years of improvement to work with.
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Re: casting a bamboo rod

#390

Post by Paul Arden »

This is a question I often ask myself, Walter. I really don’t know. I don’t know if the technique and tackle have peaked performance, and we have hit the physical wall of what the line can do. Or if it’s highly technical to the extent where that dominates performance. Or if it’s because, as you say, it’s not a sport attracting prize money or widespread glory.

Even so I do think there is more distance to be found. Not as much as wind conditions make a difference unfortunately. Eliminating the dangle, reducing the impact of counterflex and throwing perfectly straight… with those I think there is more distance to be found. These resolve to loop shape of course. And of course the other training aspects I mentioned above.

What I would look for in 5WT distance would be a javelin throwing build or middle to light heavy weight boxer.

For something like accuracy you could have the physique or a darts thrower and still win. :D

Cheers, Paul
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