I'm not a fish!

[petevicar]

I sometimes feel sorry for the fish after a long fight. They can get pretty knackered.

However if I believed that fish felt pain I would stop fishing.

The definitely don't feel pain.

[Twisties]

I've done some livebait fishing in the past and putting a hook through the back of a small mackerel, no matter how lightly, makes them go crazy!

I simply can not believe fish don't feel pain!

[Paul Arden]

But isn't that the opposite reaction? Worms do the same thing too, erm I'm told

[Tinker]

Fish feel pain. They have pain receptor nerves and a limbic system. Anyone who suggests they are not capable of feeling pain is deceiving you, because, as someone said earlier, pain is how we tell that something is wrong.

Do fish interpret pain the same as me? Do they process the nerve impulses the way I do? I don't think anyone knows that, or at least, no one has written a scholarly article about fish and pain that I can find.

Can a fish feel pain as cruelty? Seeing something as "cruel" is an emotional response. Anatomically, fish do not have analogous cortical structures to the regions of the brain where humans process emotions. Does that rule out fish cruelty? Can't find any scholarly articles on that subject, either.

Is it cruel? When is harvesting an animal NOT cruel, whether done by humans or by other animals? I am not a fan of crocodiles because I cringe every time I see film of them taking a zebra crossing the Mara River, because it seems such a cruel thing. Doesn't mean the crocs are cruel or that the zebra feels cruelly treated, I see it as cruel - and a bit gruesome.

Yes, fish feel pain. I vote yes, that when their natural behavior is interrupted they feel stress. I don't feel that rudely poking a fish with a sharp and pointy hook is cruel within the general mishmash of Nature. Someone else's emotional response may be different from mine.

And Paul: I was standing knee deep in a river one day when a salmon swam directly at me. I moved around thinking the fish would see me an alter its course, but it did not - it kept on coming right at me. When it got quite close, I was left no option other than slapping at the silly thing with my rod while high-stepping and squealing like a pre-school kid with a big hairy spider on my arm.

Some might that interpret that as me being an ass about a fish. I interpret it as a salmon with evil intentions towards me.

[Paul Arden]

Here is an article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123719.htm

[Paul Arden]

Anyway I absolutely don't think a fish can be "evil" I don't think fish have emotions. They don't feel happy or sad for example. Evil would indicate cause and effect, which is impossible for a fish.

[Twisties]

But isn't that the opposite reaction? Worms do the same thing too, erm I'm told

In what way do you mean opposite reaction? Is it in the sense that they aren't reacting to the sensation of pain but merely to the sensation of having a steel hook pierced through their back?

I think that is what the article is stating when it says:

"this methodology does not prove verifiably whether the reaction was due to a conscious sensation of pain or an unconscious impulse perception by means of nociception, or a combination of the two"

Nice article by the way Paul, seems like a pretty comprehensive summary of the literature!

[Paul Arden]

No I mean in the way that pain generally stops movement. When an animal gets hurt it stops moving. The behaviour of a hooked fish - to flee - is different to how you would expect it to behave if it felt pain. Particularly at the end of the fight when in order to reduce pain it would naturally attempt to come toward the pain source reducing pressure.

Imagine someone pulling your ear as a child, it was very easy to direct you around. Same with a bull and his nose ring. These are instinctive reactions to pain. But fish do the exact opposite. I don't see their behaviour fits to sensing pain. And thank goodness!!

[Lasse Karlsson]

Playing devil's advocate here...

Even mammals living in one of the harshest environments on the planet try to flee from pain, the harpuned whale doesn't try to go towards the pull, but rather dive and swim away.....

Still don't believe that fish feel pain though!

Cheers
Lasse

[Flyfishfairwx]

Fish have a reaction to an intrusion to their "normal", and their defense is to flee, (no MMA skills). Fish live by instinct (s) and the drive to live, eat and Procreate, maybe not even knowing that is what drives them.

As with humans they live in a lot of different "normal" conditions and environmental variedness the one common being water of course.

Without the benefit of being able to get a straight answer from the fish themselves, lets just say their reaction to the intrusion to their normal (being hook) is to fight the best they can, and react to what they have been rudimentary conditioned too as their normal that being occasionally hooked and handled gently in the release.

As long as we do our part in being good stewards of the environment and our skills as Fly Fishers and thinking humans I am fairly sure we can fish with a clear and easy mind.

Because if we fuck it up and remove the fish, then all we are doing is standing in a ribbon of water waving a long stick around.