Welcome Bruce Richards

[Paul Arden]

Doesn't compute? ok then why not make the MED in weights 3-12 in all densities? Actually if you could do this Bruce I'd be very happy

It sounds like you've had a great chance to play with making new lines Bruce. Has there been any prototypes that have turned out differently to expected? And what have been the most fun ones?

Cheers, Paul

[Walter]

Doesn't compute? ok then why not make the MED in weights 3-12 in all densities? Actually if you could do this Bruce I'd be very happy

Cheers, Paul

Two reasons. Nobody is asking for them and they probably don't perform well in the other weights. It has nothing to do with catering to inadequate casters. If it was about catering to inadequate casters the MED probably wouldn't exist.

[Paul Arden]

I've had them in 6 and 8 Walter and they've been outstanding. Why do you think they don't perform well in other weights? If your average caster struggles to carry 30 feet what are the benefits gained from giving him a WF line with a 70ft head?

Cheers Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Well I disagree that I'm wrong A DT is a great distance line in the right hands and will outperform most 40ft WF lines however for a beginner who can't double haul he will do better with a short WF line, especially one that is one or two line weights heavier!

This is turning in to a bad habit, I agree with Mr. Smelly socks

Hi Paul, hi Lasse,
I yet have to see someone (5wt.) MEDing the fluff over 50 meters. I have seen shorter headed lines (same AFTMA rating) resulting in such casts. That was in heavy winds. Simply too heavy to get the looong MED head straight in the back cast. In the WC I saw a lot of fantastic fly casters. Most of them got into serious trouble with their back casts when the wind increased to just 4 bft. 5 bft. is (statistical) average in the Baltic area where I fish for Sea trout. Bruce was spot-on, that there is no one line. Every line (every head length) has it's perfect conditions for a certain caster.
Well, that's my experience anyway. Both of you did not make a difference here.
Seems to me like you both think, that wind doesn't effect your abilty to straighten the long MED head against it? If so, I disagree.
Cheers
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

To be honest my backcast is better than my forward cast, Bernd, so in a comp I like a tailwind that casters struggle to throw into! However you have to also take into account that shooting line offers less friction than running line. A longer head that straightens behind will cast further than a shorter head as a general rule. I know there are other factors to be taken into account.

Gotta run - tiun yuin fan!

Cheers Paul

[Walter]

I've had them in 6 and 8 Walter and they've been outstanding. Why do you think they don't perform well in other weights? If your average caster struggles to carry 30 feet what are the benefits gained from giving him a WF line with a 70ft head?

Cheers Paul

For one thing, if you are getting to the point where you have a 70 foot head you are close to having the same length of head as you would with a DT. What is the advantage of continuing to increase the length of the head after that? Just buy a DT and put on your own running line. You will have the same head with a running line that shoots better. Again, it isn't about discrimation against adequate casters. It's about making a line that nobody will want except for you.

[Paul Arden]

The MED is an excellent single handed Dynamic Roll casting line and even Lasse can cast it. I realise its usage in this regard is the top 5% of casters. Maybe top 1%. Besides they don't produce DTs in the lines I want either! It's too niche.

[Walter]

I guess I just became part of the 1% of adequate casters. It's my personal favourite. On the other hand I haven't found many lines to be a handicap so maybe that makes me inadequate. But then again I don't compete so as long as I can put the fly on target with the presentation I want I'm satisfied. But you did say something about double hauling being part of what makes one an adequate caster, so maybe I'm in the 5% category? Or maybe I double haul, like the MED and don't compete so I'm 30% adequate and 60% inadequate with a smattering undecided.

Personally, I just put on whatever line I have available and go fishing. Sometimes the line isn't the best match for the rod I happen to be using and whatever kind of terminal tackle I might be using that day. When that happens I don't worry about it and I just go fishing. Sometimes I tie up a different leader to compensate for the mismatch and then I go fishing. I don't spend much time thinking about conspiracy theories in the fly line world.

[Paul Arden]

Yes but Walter you're an MCI and I know you can double haul. Most casters can't double haul and many struggle to achieve distance. In your experience do you think they can cast a short overweighted WF line further or a long belly with the abilities they have? Or do you think it's the same?

Cheers Paul

[Paul Arden]

Maybe you haven't been able to witness this but I have because for the last 15 years we've had distance shootouts with all ranges of abilities from novice to expert and a novice throws a short head further than a long head - makes sense, they are shooting running line and not head. Whereas the expert casts the long belly significantly further than the short head - which also makes sense because short heads are very difficult to cast for distance, either you attempt to carry running line making the loop unstable or you carry short and attempt a long shot but the result can be a loss of 20ft distance or more. Since really only a small bunch of casters can fully utilise a long belly line it's not surprising that the market is driving short belly overweight lines. I don't think it's rod stiffness driven - well maybe in part - but I think it's wide fixed-arc no haul driven. When I cast an outbound I have to drop two line weights and it always lands like a brick unless I check the shoot.

Cheers Paul

Ps I'm surprised you haven't optimised your tackle.