The Board

Colapsing leader and falling into the water like a spagetti in the plate was my common mistake when I started to learn casting.
I have fixed that after some time and improved the turnout of the leader with Paul's instruction to drift the hand little up and back after the rod stop in backcast (although Paul did not tell me what mistake he was fixing, but I understand now that it was rood creep that was driving me crazy). I am happy now and almost it became the natural, do not have to think much about it.

But Lately when practising the roll cast on the grass, specially the 15-16 meter roll cast, I have even worse problem, not only the leader colapse in the small bunch on the grass, but 2-3 meters of fly line also and making nice little nest for the birds (shame I can not repeat this on some tree and cut the rest of the line).
This happens like 3-4 times out of 10 casts. I am thinking that not big enough D loop is causing this, but not sure, help!

On grass it's because the line slips backwards, this rearward momentum can cause the loop to collapse, in the same way that starting an overhead cast too soon does, or can. I wouldn't be too worried about this, unless it happens on the water as well, in which case it's either too high a forward trajectory or a domed tip path. Using Drag - rod translation at the beginning of the Casting Stroke will fix this issue (also on grass usually).

The two main causes of this collapsed front end in an overhead cast is trajectory or not pausing long enough on the backcast. A low backcast is the main cause of the high forward trajectory and I generally fix that by teaching to lift the elbow and/or use less wrist during the backcast.

Incidentally making this collapse on purpose and with precision, is in my opinion that most useful presentation cast of all. It is easier using a roll cast, but learning to do it with an overhead cast is very useful as well.

Cheers, Paul

Thanks, will practice on the water for few days and then come back to the grass.

Paul, using 40-feet of force to make a 30-foot cast causes the line and leader to snap back and collapse in a heap, too.

Yes it will - or can. There are many possibilities. I use the most likely first and as a process of elimination. It can also be applying the force early and/or through a wide arc. Too much force can do it, but by that point I think you can control the landing.

Cheers Paul