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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

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Neil Owens
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#1

Post by Neil Owens »

I've just had a quick teabreak delve into hooks and their production process. While everyone *says* their hooks are great, that's akin to me setting up a casting school saying I'm the bee's knees! It doesn't mean anything.

I can't see that there's any kind of quality process involved in hook production so we're at the mercy of some nameless company, down what's very likely to be a long rabbit hole of a production/distribution chain, buying the right material for whatever part of the process they're tasked to do. So someone mistakenly types 'grade 2 steel' instead of 'grade 3 steel' in a batch order and James and Tracy get bent hooks in the Bahamas (there's worse places you know... ;) )

To be honest, the best solution is to get on social media and name and shame - otherwise nothing will change. Yes, you could be all polite and I'm sure they'll apologise and send you twice as many replacements (aka Fulling Mill's 'promise') but that doesn't help if Paul or TZ or whoever experience the same thing next week/month/year. Especially professional tiers who rely on word of mouth and reputation. And of course some unsuspecting fish who've now got fatter lips than would have otherwise been the case.
Nick
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#2

Post by Nick »

Ah, the good old "bad hooks" situation! We have been here before.

I am also wondering which brand of hooks were at fault. I had a similar issue with a packet of tiemco saltwater hooks. They were totally soft and could be bent in a circle with one finger. However, I don't recall if I actually lost fish on them - I usually test my hooks by flexing them a bit after I put them in the vice. If they snap or bend, they go in the bin! That comes of being a broke teenager when I started fly tying. I used some really cheap hooks!

Something I have noticed before, which might be an issue here, is that with a weedguard it's hard to get the hook into the fish all the way to the bend. If just the point is stuck, there's a lot more leverage and so a greater chance of bending out the hook or breaking off the point. More of an issue with something like a tarpon than a bonefish, but that might be what's going on.

N.
Nick
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#3

Post by Nick »

Neil Owens wrote:
I can't see that there's any kind of quality process involved in hook production so we're at the mercy of some nameless company, down what's very likely to be a long rabbit hole of a production/distribution chain, buying the right material for whatever part of the process they're tasked to do. So someone mistakenly types 'grade 2 steel' instead of 'grade 3 steel' in a batch order and James and Tracy get bent hooks in the Bahamas (there's worse places you know... ;) )
.
Actually, with the major hook companies, there is a massive amount of quality control. To get an actual bad batch of big name hooks these days is extremely rare.

However, there are other lower quality manufacturers out there, and I have heard about (but never actually seen) bad hooks repackaged as expensive brands.
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Paul Arden
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#4

Post by Paul Arden »

I had an interesting event with Tim last week where he had a hook straighten. I use Gamakatsu Stinger B10S on Toman and I can't recall having had one straighten in five years. We can only assume that it was in the way the fish had somehow taken the fly without the point penetrating.

Having said that modern hooks are lightyears ahead of the crap I started out with!

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#5

Post by Paul Arden »

I still have some of those (actually 1000s because I used to buy in bulk). I can send some to James :)
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petevicar
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#6

Post by petevicar »

OK James what brand and model were the hooks?
IANACI
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James9118
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#7

Post by James9118 »

petevicar wrote:OK James what brand and model were the hooks?
Tiemco 811S

Cheers, James
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sms
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#8

Post by sms »

Tiemco 811S is crap. All stainless hooks are crap. Go with carbon steel hooks if you want strength. Yes, you loose corrosion resistance even with plating - but only wet the flies you need and dry them fast after use and/or wash with fresh water.
Steel is funny in that sense that even small deviations in composition can have a big effect on the properties, behavior under heat treatment etc. So it does not need a big step in the wrong direction to have a dud batch.

By education I am a M.Sc. (Tech.) and my major was physical metallurgy, so I have come across this type of stuff in the past...
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Geenomad
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#9

Post by Geenomad »

sms wrote: Go with carbon steel hooks if you want strength. Yes, you loose corrosion resistance even with plating - but only wet the flies you need and dry them fast after use and/or wash with fresh water.
Agree 100%

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Mark
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Mangrove Cuckoo
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FP - Hooks; be sharp, be strong - is that too much to ask?

#10

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

The T 811S are actually famous around here for being soft. It might not be a bad lot.

Some folks actually "tune" their hooks when tying, like enlarging the gape or turning the point out a bit. You risk snapping the hook if you try that with a non SS hook. The 811S hook is easy to modify.

Sharp and strong hooks are available, but you left off cost. I don't know of any sharp/strong hooks available at the relatively affordable price of the 811S.

For bonefish you might look at the Gamakatsu SC15?
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