Hauling and the 170

[Lou Bruno]

"The mechanical parameter which governs the "ideal" timing for the haul is (again) the loaded frequency of the rod: faster tackle (stiffer rod, less carry) means earlier hauls, slower tackle (softer rods, more carry) means later hauls."

Merlin,

So, are you saying the start of the haul is dependent on rod action (fast or slow)?
Also, isn't greater rod load caused mostly by faster acceleration?

Lou

[Paul Arden]

Oooh - I find the opposite. Slower tackle the haul needs to start earlier. Fast outfit the haul can happen very late and can be sharp. Make the same late, dramatic haul that we use with fast tackle on slow tackle and we are in danger of tailing.

Cheers, Paul

[Lou Bruno]

Paul
That was my understanding.
Loaded Frequency?
Lou

[Lasse Karlsson]

Suuuuuure

https://vimeo.com/35524148



Cheers
Lasse

[Merlin]

So, are you saying the start of the haul is dependent on rod action (fast or slow)?
Also, isn't greater rod load caused mostly by faster acceleration?
Oooh - I find the opposite. Slower tackle the haul needs to start earlier. Fast outfit the haul can happen very late and can be sharp. Make the same late, dramatic haul that we use with fast tackle on slow tackle and we are in danger of tailing.

I was not speaking of the start of the haul but of the timing of the peak haul velocity. Also I was not considering a haul varying in amplitude and overall speed level (like a sharp one). A slower tackle (either because the rod is softer or the carry is heavier), has a slower response than a fast one (either stiff or with little carry). This is the illustration of “loaded frequency”. The “perfect” timing is to place the peak haul velocity just after MCL and before RSP. Since a slower tackle has a slower response, you have to delay a little bit the peak haul velocity by comparison to a faster tackle (if you consider a given hauling style: amplitude and duration). This is what I meant in the quote.

The sharpness of the haul also plays a role: it is better to use a long soft haul with a very slow rod whilst you can use a sharp one with a stiff rod. There is no contradiction here, but just confusion in interpretation (starting point versus peak velocity).

Tackle has some influence, and the example given by Lasse makes me think that the rods used are not so much different in terms of loaded speed, but unfortunately, I guess we ignore the actual values for these rods. The trap here is in the difference in between unloaded and loaded frequencies, there is an intermediate characteristic which can blur the picture (the equivalent mass of the rod).

Merlin

[Lasse Karlsson]

I bet you have acces to very different fishing rods in terms of loaded frequencies Merlin, can't you shot a similar clip, so we get to see that theory in real life?

Cheers
Lasse

[Merlin]

I wish I could, Lasse, but I do not have a couple of similar lines nor practical casting site (e.g. a uniform large wall) for a decent video, where I live. It is necessary to take very different rods to see something, let's say a typical fast modern rod, and something pretty slow. For example an old Winston (the green colored ones) and a HT or Sage or Radian, etc. I do not have such slow rods. What you expect is some tail in the fly leg for the slower rod, but that also means that you should try to go to the limit for tailing, one rod failing, not the other one. Not so easy to get in practice. If you stay on the safe side for tailing, you will see nothing whatever the rods are.

I think we are approaching hair splitting here, I do not know anyone to whom I can say: 10 milliseconds sooner please, thanks. This is the order of magnitude of the problem. The difficulty in hauling is to pass the MCL point for peak haul velocity. Knowing that is sufficient to adapt one's hauling style, either by starting sooner or later, either by using a sharp or a slow haul, or both. The higher the (load) carry is, the more difficult it becomes since the moment for MCL is being delayed. And all that is a question of some small multiple of 10 milliseconds.

People who have cast soft glass rods do know that they do not use the same hauling style than for a graphite canoon.

Merlin

[Lou Bruno]

Merlin

This is a portion from a SL article I just read, I needed further understanding. Article might be dated, but lays a nice foundation to your topic....yes?
Thanks
Lou

It is also apparent in this study that good casters can adapt the stroke to the rod in order to generate the line speed needed for the cast in question.

 http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/rodcast.shtml

[Lou Bruno]

Merlin

What makes this difficult?
"The difficulty in hauling is to pass the MCL point for peak haul velocity."
Lou

[Merlin]

Lou

I mean that for a non experienced angler/caster, if someone does not explain to him what to do, it is difficult for him to take the good decision in terms of hauling time (style) when he starts increasing his carry.

Merlin