The Board

I think it’s design and copy. Sage are a highly successful company. Jerry obviously likes rods that are stiff in the lower section. And so the vast majority of companies try to copy this action. That’s one aspect of it anyway.

But you are also right about marketing. “Fast” makes it sound exciting especially if you have to be a good caster to use it. No matter that you end up up-lining because you’re not

Cheers, Paul

Merlin wrote:Anything can be used by marketers, Paul, so the issue is not linked to the influence of competition casters, but only to the one of marketers. The lifetime record of graphite rod series is the original G from Scott I think, nearly 30 years on the market, and some are still in use.

I want to add to this that you can still buy, as a special order, new Winston WTs. That series was introduced in 1987, according to this page.

The psychology of fly rod choice is a fascinating topic in itself. Let's just say that, in America at least, the majority of guys buying "stiff" and "fast" are themselves neither. If a fly rod helps one feel otherwise, it seems well worth the $900 .....at least until you find you can't cast it at which point, like any bad carpenter, you blame the tools. As for lessons, as any wife can tell you, real men don't ask for directions. And please don't ask me how I know all this.

G

Merlin wrote:Hi George

There is unfortunately no official rod rating (see here) ,

Merlin

Merlin

Thank you for the link. It was very helpful.
Thank you also for all your thoughtful contributions to this board. They have benefited me immensely and are greatly appreciated.

George

For me it’s a flaw in rod design when the lower section feels rigid. There must be a few designers who think otherwise but the main problem is the market is full of copycats without any design input of their own.

Of course if you can’t double haul then a softer rod will suit you better. But if you can’t double haul your time would be better off spent learning (it takes 15 minutes) and then stiff rods will not be such a challenge.

Cheers, Paul

The weather and workload finally cleared this week so that I could take the GT125 out with my brand new rod, a Scott GS 9' 6wt. Felt like a really nice combo, as unlikely as it may be. I like both the visibility of the GT125 and it's long head. Like I wrote above, this is the first WF line I have bought in a long time.

I am trying to play it safe when it comes to the CI exam, but the one advice I am not following at the moment is rod rating. I just can't bring myself to take the test with a 7wt rod, because I simply would not fish with it around here. I can't force myself to buy or cast rods I wouldn't take fishing.

Anyway, had three focused practice sessions. One on basic feel after a long winter. Second on grip: I have been using the three point grip for some years, but decided now to switch back to key grip (thumb on top) because of the better support it gives during backcast. Had not really thought about the role of the index finger in the control of the backcast until I experimented with grips yesterday. Today I had a third session, an absolutely superb one on loop size and shape in 30'-50' in hefty wind. Very uplifting. Tomorrow the master of the universe is going to drop approximately 20cm of snow on us, so it's time to curl up, read a couple of issues of The Loop and watch some SL casting videos.

Hi Jarmo,

firstly, I think it's important to learn all grips. The thumb on top grip can lead to Ulnar Deviation. However the difference between this use of the wrist and Flexion is only a few degrees - or less! For me, at least, Flexion is a better use of the wrist - more like a throwing action. There is a grip that utilises Ulnar Deviation to good effect, and that is where the fingers are "cradling" the rod and the rod is rotated by closing the fingers - this is in the video manual under competition distance casting. http://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/compet ... ance-cast/

Supination, aka "torque-twist", is also a very interesting grip and is what I use for quick shots. I don't know why supination is often considered wrist usage, because it comes from the elbow!

Mostly I use flexion/extension for light (trout) tackle and radial/ulnar deviation for heavy SW gear and finger-rod-rotation distance. Pronation/Supination for side casting and vertical Snakehead shots (as well as curved casts).

The choice of grip (finger placement) flows back from this - ie how you are going to use your wrist determines how best to grip the rod. It's a fascinating subject which unfortunately is often lumped together rather ignominiously as "style", which it most certainly isn't.

Cheers, Paul

Maybe it is just me, but I was not happy with the coating on the Barrio lines. I used the lines for fishing and not casting. So a SA or Rio lasts 2 or 3 seasons. Must be the clean water mixed with the short season we have here .... However, the Barrio lines I had lasted only one, so the price is very relative.

I understand that casting on grass is a different affair and whatever line must "gone" pretty quick.

The GT90 that I have for fishing larger streams/medium rivers is into somewhere it’s 5th season with no sign of degradation. I’m not sure how long I’ve had my small stream, #3, one of the original brown ones but it gets hammered year in year out.

Regards

Vince

Paul Arden wrote:I think it's important to learn all grips.

I agree, both as a caster and someone aspiring to become a teacher.

The thumb on top grip can lead to Ulnar Deviation.

This is the reason why I switched to the three point grip (flexion/extension) some years ago. I think someone (Jason Borger?) wrote that thumb-on-top caster has to be conscious of the use of wrist.

However the difference between this use of the wrist and Flexion is only a few degrees - or less! For me, at least, Flexion is a better use of the wrist - more like a throwing action.

As I wrote above, my issue with flexion grips I know is the shorter base of support, which for me is a significant component in level of control. With three point grip I have a shorter base of support in backcast than when casting thumb on top, because the index finger is not involved in the backcast. With the V-grip I have a shorter base of support in forward cast. More about this below.

There is a grip that utilises Ulnar Deviation to good effect, and that is where the fingers are "cradling" the rod and the rod is rotated by closing the fingers - this is in the video manual under competition distance casting. http://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/compet ... ance-cast/

That is a nice video, breaking down the components of your distance cast. I will give that grip a try in my next training session.

Supination, aka "torque-twist", is also a very interesting grip and is what I use for quick shots. I don't know why supination is often considered wrist usage, because it comes from the elbow! Mostly I use flexion/extension for light (trout) tackle and radial/ulnar deviation for heavy SW gear and finger-rod-rotation distance. Pronation/Supination for side casting and vertical Snakehead shots (as well as curved casts).

In the past couple of years I have been casting a lot with lighter and shorter rods (in addition to two-handed rods), and with those rods I have preferred the three point grip (flexion/extension). But in my case, I feel that even a 9' 6wt requires a firmer backcast grip for control.

I can certainly see how pronation/supination could be beneficial for horizontal (side) casting. I will experiment with it too.

The choice of grip (finger placement) flows back from this - ie how you are going to use your wrist determines how best to grip the rod. It's a fascinating subject which unfortunately is often lumped together rather ignominiously as "style", which it most certainly isn't.

Indeed. I really appreciate how you provided an analysis for the different grips in terms of "degrees of freedom" in the wrist. Thanks!