Pullback, Counterflex and Loop Size

[Geenomad]

IMHO, a well executed PB ( a.k.a.“Hard Stop”, “Toft Block” etc.) foreshortens the casting arc, focuses counterflex energy towards the target and then captures the energy of the subsequent rebound, to further speed up the fly leg of the loop, as does a snap or a check haul.

Hi Tony
Your account makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks. If the loop is tight the arc must (somehow) be less - relatively speaking. With PB we stop high(er), before and after PB, I suspect. Not sure if it speeds up the fly leg though. Maybe it speeds up loop propagation. See below.

Responding at large. I mentioned lift because even when I pantomime PB on the FC I lift at the end of the sequence.(Not so much but a little bit also on the BC.) Check out Lasse's TCX vid at about 20secs in.

Simple move. Complex consequences.

Cheers
Mark

[Geenomad]

Loopmorph.....

Sorry Lasse. Missed this one the first time around. Early loopmorph. We open loop with CF and close loop with more tension in the rod leg? Simple movement. Simpler explanation.

Maybe we this way we don't have to reconcile more arc (CF) with less (narrower) loop. I'll admit to struggling a bit with the reconciliation.

Cheers
Mark

[Paul Arden]

Here is pull-back being used to tuck the cast (was filmed to show that PB is part of the Casting Stroke). http://www.sexyloops.com/movies/pullback.avi

I have some others shot more recently. Not sure where but I’ll check later!

Cheers, Paul

[Geenomad]

Here is pull-back being used to tuck the cast (was filmed to show that PB is part of the Casting Stroke). http://www.sexyloops.com/movies/pullback.avi l

Thanks Paul. Very interesting. Freeze frame at about 55sec shows S shape in the rod on FC. Freeze again at 56secs. I see you introducing only a tiny bit of lift.

What I see is the recovery of the rod from CF bringing the tip back along a line close to the fly leg, closer in fact to the rod tip than the fly leg passed after loop formation. If that's what happens then it looks like the recovery movement back to RSP is what tightens the loop. The recovery is more forceful than usual because it is a reaction to a CF on steroids.

None of the above might have its nose in front.

Cheers
Mark

[Paul Arden]

I agree. One of the things PB does is to straighten the tip path while the rod is unloading. Haul does the same incidentally.

The other vids are good too. I’ll find them tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

I'm not on WiFi and so cant check, but I think that the 4-stops movies was covering pull-back. This is on the old board! http://www.sexyloops.com/movies/3stops/

[Lasse Karlsson]

So, normal stop normal loops, soft stop, tighter loops, pullback, opens loops but speeds up the linevelocity? And stopless, loops zoom out there best

Can't open the first clip on my phone Paul.

Cheers
Lasse

[Geenomad]

So, normal stop normal loops, soft stop, tighter loops, pullback, opens loops but speeds up the linevelocity? And stopless, loops zoom out there best

Can't open the first clip on my phone Paul.

Lasse. I have an old vid player on the Mac called VLC. With it I can get Paul's old vid close enough to frame by frame.

Here's my take /$0.02AUD after watching the movie. Normal (hard) stop normal loop. Pullback.... CF is increased and maybe loop would be wider if we stopped there but....

Increased CF drives increased rebound. Rebound is the really helpful part.

During rebound tip and rod leg retrace an arc (up and back) close to the path of the fly leg. Closer to the fly leg than the fly leg was to the tip when it passed by at loop formation. Result, tighter loop and probably enhanced loop propagation. If we then do a rod lift and extend the effect of rebound we should get an even tighter loop if the path of the tip keeps going up and back.

Cheers
Mark

[Paul Arden]

I’m pretty sure I made two types of pull-back in these videos. One is a subtle loop tightening pull back and the other a dramatic tuck/curve casting pullback. I would be surprised if CF was increased with the first variety and if anything it allows for less force during the CS and therefore less bend. That’s the one we use to go from a 2ft loop to a 12” loop. The other one is violent and that’s the one that is argued about and has been discussed with regards to three possible reasons for the increased line speed 1) more total force 2) S-shape 2nd node frequency chasing the bend out and 3) increased CF adding zip to the loop after it’s gone. I don’t think that 1 has been discussed in detail and I very much like the argument that it straightens tip path during unload. I think it does this in two ways - 1) raising the tip and 2) the S-shape.

I might be able to do some work with the vids over the next few days and reupload via YouTube or Vimeo. Will see how tomorrow pans out.

Cheers, Paul

[Mac Brown]

Forcing bend out of rod is accurate because pullback actually puts an S shape into the rod.
This "S" shape should minimize counter flex and really add nitrous to loop speed.
Common for elite distance roll casters to make use of S shape on every cast.
Cheers,mac