ICSF

[Paul Arden]

[media] [/media]

[Lasse Karlsson]

As far as I’m concerned however, the WCs first and foremost are about the guys and girls who already compete. If the general feeling is to change rules to make the games better - not necessarily more inclusive - just better for us, then I’m all for that. I’m not into dumbing it down for guys who are never going to go anyway. There is always the “it’s casting, not fishing” and there are always, always going to be anglers dismissing casting sport and even the importance of good fly casting “I can’t cast but I catch fish” bollocks. Let’s not worry about them; there will always be people looking for an excuse to piss on the party. They live miserable lives full of jealousy and they don’t know how to have a fun. It’s probably better they stay at home anyway.

Cheers, Paul

I agree that haters gonna hate and lead miserable lifes.

I'd like to see the events change to 5wt accuracy and distance, seatrout with lighter line, say 21-24 grams and then get rid of 18 foot and introduce seatrout spey over both shoulders with the same restictions as overhead, and then all events cast with casters in the water. There's no reason to cast over water if not having the casters in it, then rather move fully to a field and get proper measurements!

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

And maybe a straightforward 7WT Med overhead distance with a 9 1/2ft rod.... “Stillwater Distance”. And a “Danish Games” style presentation casts game.

I like the water but it does make measuring hard!

The ACA has/had a combined accuracy/distance game but it’s heavily skewed towards accuracy.

You could have say 5 disciplines with Single Handed rod and 5 with DHD and have an overall ranking position. A pentathlon sort of thing. Eg Overhead with MED, Shooting Head, Accuracy, Presentation Game, Speys.

If we are leaving the 3 day format and having longer events then it allows for much more. An alternative option would be to have several heats instead of just one and a final. That would help remove some of the effects of the wind lottery.

Imagine a caster travelling from the other side of the world for a five day event and getting 4 minutes of casting only. Particularly bearing in mind that most casters have been inspired by and compete in 5WT distance. That’s why I think dropping in a similar event but with a MED7 would be a good idea.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

I agree with ditching water for two reasons. First, in fly casting distance we award a world championship on a best estimate of distance, not an exact measurement. Second, water venues are hard to find and even harder to get one that minimises the impact of side winds.
Funny, both issues were considered as negatives by most ICSF affiliated nation’s back in the 70s when inland fly and plug accuracy and fly distance events were all cast on water. That is why ICSF Inland Casting (fly and plug) World Championships have been cast on grass since the late 70s. CIPS affiliated casting nations recognised both as issues and were casting all events on grass years earlier.
Also agree with extending the number of days, but that increases costs for attendees, always an interesting dilemma.
However, given my support for change in the above paragraphs, I caution making any event changes urgently. Casters have committed to the current events by competing in WCs and purchased gear that they have settled on as giving them the best chance of casting to their best on the day. Many have also purchased gear they have discarded before settling on their gear of choice. We have just had people give an opinion about WC attendance costs, having them purchase new gear for changed events or new events, before say Ireland, would be folly.
I believe the fly casting events were designed on the premise that they would attract many more people to the sport. It did, however some may argue the numbers. Irrespective of that to delete and replace, or, amend the current events would force those who have committed to WC fly casting, to experiment and spend more money and time on different gear. I would suggest, most have incurred that time and cost relatively recently, so, to require them to spend more time and money on gear after Sweden and before Ireland would set the sport backwards on any comparative indicator of success.
If the sport is to attract funding from any source, internal or external, it needs to increase caster participation rates in Sweden and again in Ireland, using Cumbrian numbers as the benchmark of the sport’s key result indicators.
I support letting the event structure settle for that period so that a more informed critique of events can be undertaken. Participating casters could be given up to three years to be surveyed as to what they want and be given adequate time to undertake changes necessary to prepare for any changes to WC events they deem appropriate.
If the raisin d’être for establishing FCWC holds water (no pun intended) then participation numbers in Sweden and Ireland need to exceed those of Cumbria. Ignore the issue of ICSF involvement, or lack thereof, Cumbria was an ICSF World Championship, as Sweden will be and I presume, so will Ireland be. Even if Ireland is run by a different body, new or existing, I would advise no event changes until after Ireland.
Sure, get any new events defined, tested and circulated to WC attendees for comment and feedback, but consider the cost impact on individuals who may have to purchase different gear to ensure they compete in 2023 and beyond. Hey, there may be a different organising body running things then.
Glad to see teams can still get SA lines at a discount. Australians purchase ours through retailers. I was told by the agent that the discount only applied to 2016. A few years ago Paul, you kindly gave me a contact at SA re that offer, I’ll contact him and see if I can save a few cents on my line replacements in 2020.

John

[Paul Arden]

Sure, if anyone is competing at national level and still doesn’t have a contact direct to SA just drop me an email. There needs to be one point of contact per country. So team captains or manager!

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

John, it was the same notion that killed the suggestions that the seatrout line would be lighter at 24 grams. The longer the current events stay the same, the harder it gets to change anything from the same old view that it has been there for long.

I want us to be in water, and finding venues isnt harder than finding ever increasing big lawns. Make the lines lighter and they naturally don't fly as far, make the casters stand in knee deep water, and the distance go down a little more, making it a smaller space needed. I'm not in favor of adding more events, as much fun as it would be, it also requires more time and more official. I am dead sure the latter is a reason for the Sweden 2020 to be held over 10 days, as the same official will most likely have to judge in both WC's. And we're already looking at a lack of time enogh with the Cumbrian numbers.

Cheers
Lasse

[John Waters]

“raisin d’être” hahaha, bloody auto edit.

[Paul Arden]

[John Waters]

Good points Lasse, water vs grass has been an issue of debate amongst casters for decades. I see water as both a strength and an weakness and I ebb and flow on the issue of water vs grass. My view is,

Water provides the best opportunity for the sport to capitalise upon the traditional link between casting with fishing. In my view the jury is still out on this issue, hence my suggestion to consolidate externally but become very proactive internally in the next to years. I know of very few competition casters, fly, plug, surf or all three, whose entry channel was not fishing, however, I believe that if finite and limited. It will be interesting to see any growth in the sport at local or national level over the short term. That KPI is not muddied too much by which international body is operating, or how much it charges to compete at the next WC, hence should be the measure of growth and spectator appeal.

Also, accuracy on water generates sound and motion, and hence maybe excitement with any spectators who see it. Plug casting to metal discs in water epitomises that and I was sad to see that cease in the 70s. Fly accuracy on water may have the same potential for spectator appeal, but may need a change or two to realise any potential.

I have mentioned the advantages of grass to casting I.e flexibility of direction, multiple courts for spectator comparison, accessibility, accuracy of measurement.

You are correct, reducing the distances cast through gear changes will alleviate the pressures on time and water surface required. It also applies to plug distance casting, I.e use plugs of the same weight but hollow, so they have far greater surface area, and distances reduce. Large surface area designed plugs for accuracy may have advantages also to both competitors and spectators.

In preparing a proposal for a change to the Trout Accuracy event for the ICSF General Assembly a few weeks ago read some documentation I have prepared previously. At the risk of boring everyone here, I have chosen the following excerpts,

To Fly Casting Event Rules Workgroup June 2011,

“My preference for Fly Casting Championships would be water, but the disadvantage is that it restricts possible venue sites around the world, makes measurement more difficult, time consuming and less accurate for distance events. However looks great for accuracy.

Water does however, reinforce the link with fly fishing.

The corollary is grass, and if a tournament is held on grass at least have the accuracy centre target a water filled disc.”

To ICSF re Fly Casting Rule change proposal, 2017

“As I said, if the 24 gram is better for the sport in 2018, then I support the change for 2018 but would prefer it for 2020.”

ICSF (including previous incantations such as ICF, CIPS, WCA) World Casting Championships have been around since the 1950s, Fly Casting World Championships (whether NCF or ICSF) have been around since 2010, and the same issues recur. Maybe it is time we defined what we want our sport to look like and collectively move to achieving that future state. How each of us do that is up to the individual but I think it is time we all gave it our best shot.

I trust I have not offended anybody with my posts and most certainly hope the above has no typos. I got that bored with typing my own, silly thoughts, I resolved to not bore myself even more by reading them with something like correctness in mind.

Keep casting All, it sure beats the crap out of staying home and doing the gardening,

John

[John Waters]

On the subject of elapsed time for events, have all classification of casters cast together in the one event, then separate and collate the scores per classification by computer. Can’t see why we need to allocate separate times and repeat the process just because a classification changes.

John