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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

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Bernd Ziesche
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#21

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Tue May 07, 2019 2:58 pm

At least we can add enough force to bring him out of balance. And he can add enough force to sometimes break quite heavy leaders without the help of any rocks. Anyway as you know it's exactly the way how we fight him which makes for a short or long fight mostly, isn't it?
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#22

Post by Flybye » Tue May 07, 2019 4:30 pm

In the days when I did a lot of seatrout fishing I hooked many salmon up to 18lbs on a 5/6 wt rod, they seemed easier to control on that outfit than on a 15ft 10w. Maybe due to increased sensitivity so you could stop them before they started, but on reflection I think maybe you could pull harder with the shorter lever.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#23

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Tue May 07, 2019 7:28 pm

Some measurements:

Echo TR 13'6" 8#
45° pull avg. 4,1kg (get metric Paul :p)
90° pull avg. 1,4kg

Echo boost 9' 8#
45° pull avg. 5,1kg
90° pull avg. 1,7kg

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Bernd Ziesche
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#24

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed May 08, 2019 8:41 am

Hi Lasse,
Thanks for sharing those fine numbers!

Those numbers seem quite high to me. So I guess you tried to add max possible force input?
Or did you just try to add the force which you would add in a real fish fight?

What line weights (gram) would you choose for those rods?
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Bernd
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#25

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed May 08, 2019 9:03 am

Lasse Karlsson wrote: Echo TR 13'6" 8#
45° pull avg. 4,1kg (get metric Paul :p)
90° pull avg. 1,4kg

Echo boost 9' 8#
45° pull avg. 5,1kg
90° pull avg. 1,7kg
Bernd Ziesche wrote: Those numbers seem quite high to me.
So I just made some measurements, too.

Sage One 7136-6 #7
Sage Z-Axis 890-4 #8

On both rods I added between 250 and 600 gramm depending on the angle (between 90and 45°). The level of force input I kept like I would in a real fight.

I am pretty sure, that driving it up to max possible force input on my side and one shake would make the salmon bend the hook or crack the leader. What we add on the rod side isn't nearly correlating with the leader side added by the fish. That am sure about.

So in relation to my measurements I don't think to make much (if any) different force inputs to the line.

Based on my experience I get the salmon tired much faster on the dh rod. As written before.... thicker line + pretty excellent damping + excellent directing.
Especially for the really big fish I would want the damping of the longer rod when getting the heavy head shakes.
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Bernd
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#26

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed May 08, 2019 9:33 am

Bernd Ziesche wrote:Hi Lasse,
Thanks for sharing those fine numbers!

Those numbers seem quite high to me. So I guess you tried to add max possible force input?
Or did you just try to add the force which you would add in a real fish fight?

What line weights (gram) would you choose for those rods?
Cheers
Bernd
This was the premise:
Paul Arden wrote:Can someone measure up the pull with a DHD to what feels like max pressure at 45 and 90 degrees pls?

Cheers, Paul
Should answer your question I think :)

Line weight, singlehander between 0 and 30 ish grams double hander 0 to 40 ish, why?

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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#27

Post by Paul Arden » Thu May 09, 2019 7:09 am

Interesting numbers - thanks Lasse. Excellent numbers too - do you apply that sort of force when fighting fish? That certainly seems to answer the initial question - a single handed rod applies more force to the fish than a DHD (like for like). It would be interesting to see if others find the same. Did it feel that you were applying more or less force with the DHD?
Anyway as you know it's exactly the way how we fight him which makes for a short or long fight mostly, isn't it?

Absolutely - it's about keeping the fish off balance, making it fight and either give up or swim into the net! I think it's really about breaking the spirit, or netting it by surprise.
I am pretty sure, that driving it up to max possible force input on my side and one shake would make the salmon bend the hook or crack the leader
I would like to put a database together of hook strengths and other characteristics. For Gourami we started measuring the strength of hooks because the ones I use start to straighten at 9lbs and this is a problem. Piffen has brought some very strong carp hooks but getting them to float may be a problem. For tippet here I'm using 20lb Spectra so stronger hooks would be a serious advantage.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#28

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Thu May 09, 2019 8:54 am

Paul Arden wrote: a single handed rod applies more force to the fish than a DHD (like for like). It would be interesting to see if others find the same.
Bernd Ziesche wrote:On both rods I added between 250 and 600 gramm depending on the angle (between 90and 45°). The level of force input I kept like I would in a real fight.
Hi Paul,
I disagree with that conclusion. I put a level of force against the line, which makes me feel comfortable with not going to break the leader or bending the hook straight. That goes to both using a sh or dh rod. My measurements show the same level of force on both rods indeed. Still on the dh rod (other than Lasse) I use heavvier lines. Those lines partially put additional pressure/resistance to the fish.
Pulling 4 - 5 Kg on my side of the line and my hooks would bend straight for sure. :p Also the salmon probably could break the leader at some point.
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Bernd
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#29

Post by Paul Arden » Thu May 09, 2019 9:43 am

Depends on the hooks. The Gamakatsu Bonefish hooks I use at 9lbs to start to straighten - and that’s a test around metal not embedded. Salmon hooks that I’ve seen look stronger but I haven’t tested them. What tippet do you commonly use?

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Lasse Karlsson
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Fighting fish: Two-handed, single handed and stiffer rods

#30

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 pm

Paul Arden wrote:Interesting numbers - thanks Lasse. Excellent numbers too - do you apply that sort of force when fighting fish? That certainly seems to answer the initial question - a single handed rod applies more force to the fish than a DHD (like for like). It would be interesting to see if others find the same. Did it feel that you were applying more or less force with the DHD?



Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul

I felt like applying alot more force on the DHD, but I knew that going in, the rod could probably take it (Tims a madman) but I need to buff up as I was shaking and exhausted after the DHD, the single hander not so much, I felt like I had more in me, and I started with the DHD...

I rarely apply that much pressure on a fish, and then its more direct, but I'd be interested in seeing a salmon making a headshake while being skulldragged :) I doubt the DHD lever offers much cushoning for that, pike do it too, and its the sudden burst and pointy things in the mouth that cut leaders here.

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