overloading

[Lasse Karlsson]

It's a pity I don't have a white HT10. Stu Tripney has the only one we have made. Anyway you can pick out the loop in a few frames.

Just get some white spray paint!

And aren't you using a 12 these days?

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Head lengths a bit much for the tiny rod,

In what way? Is it the amount of weight that is the problem?


Cheers, Paul

Nope, I said length and I mean length shorter head with same weight is easier

Cheers
Lasse

Interesting. So you didn't find that the mass of the 12WT line presented any control difficulties with the 3WT rod.

Perfect - there is no such thing as overloading then.

[Paul Arden]

Just get some white spray paint!
And aren't you using a 12 these days?

The 12WT is away and chasing Tarpon. I'm having another built at the moment. Some interesting results with the HT12 and the MED5. I think "10" is optimal, although I've only tried 6, 8, 10 and 12. What I find interesting about that result is that's what Merlin predicted with modelling.

I can't spray paint my HT10 because it's my Snakehead rod!

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

I thought we had discussed that Paul. Oh well, my mistake

Oh maybe - what did we conclude?

I think the conclusion depended very heavily on which side of the discussion the reader came in on.

But if I remember correctly, line velocity* and mass are the defining factors for distance (i.e. momentum).

Cheers,
Graeme


* Line velocity also includes the direction of line speed in 3D.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Graeme,

When I compare HT6 to HT10 the line carry is the same. That leaves me with two variables - one is line speed and the other is loop morph. In the case of loop morph there is obviously a difference. The rod flexes less during the casting stroke and consequently counterflex is reduced. Also the recovery speed is quicker which in turn I think affects the loop.

I think line speed is the governing factor but I’m not 100% convinced since as we know it’s not always the casts we throw the fastest that are our longest ones. I remember about 15 years ago casting with Rick in Texas who had made an enormous leap forward in his casting. He attributed his gain to using less force.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

Probably veering off topic here (sorry) but isn't carry limited by head length in this case?

Have you changed the way you cast the 170 now? I remember your instructions to make the tip nearly hit the grass before lifting it. Counter flex or extra rotation, either way, the tip path after loop formation sets the initial loop width, doesn't it? (Serious question, not telling you you're wrong about the loop because I don't know the answer there ...)

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Hi Graeme,

Yes and yes! I aim to leave the very end of the head at the very top of the loop (or slightly longer with a tail wind) and my arc is less with the HT10. In fact I often use pull-back on the final backcast - if there is a strong tail wind I don’t do this, but still the arc is reduced.

Cheers, Paul

[Magnus]

Paul

"When I compare HT6 to HT10... The rod flexes less during the casting stroke and consequently counterflex is reduced. Also the recovery speed is quicker which in turn I think affects the loop."

You had that confirmed by the techs?

Magnus

[Paul Arden]

No just by watching loop morph Magnus. Do you think either is wrong? A stiffer rod should bend less for the same force (Casting Stroke) and I would have thought that the HT10 will have a higher frequency than the HT6 (recovery).

But as Graeme points out I used to teach to throw the tip into the ground with the HT6 and that doesn’t work at all well with the HT10. I have a theory about this too but I can save that until these are confirmed

Cheers, Paul

[Magnus]

Hi Paul

Its not as simple as that makes it sound. A stiffer rod the same weight, length, build would certainly have a higher frequency - you don't have that. Fairly certainly a #10 rod is heavier than a #6. "The same force" looks to me like it's shot through with assumptions - I pick up a #10 and a #6 rod, all else being equal I use more force to lift the #10 - I certainly need to apply more force to move the heavier rod so that I end up with the same line speed. Vary the carry and you vary the frequency as far as I know, the line damps the natural frequency of the rod.
So...maybe ask Merlin ?

Oh and I have no idea what watching loop shapes (on shaky video) and trying to compare them can say about the frequency of rods.

Magnus