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A Climbing Loop?

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James9118
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#61

Post by James9118 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:46 am

Lasse - how far can you chuck a 20g weight single handed with your non-flyfishing outfit (I can't even bring myself to say it :D )

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Paul Arden
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#62

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:57 am

I believe that 100m is possible with 1oz although 60-70 more usual. I’m not sure how it will cast on the fly rod but please use a Sage and not the HT (in case you it the tip :D )

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James9118
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#63

Post by James9118 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:07 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:57 am
I believe that 100m is possible with 1oz although 60-70 more usual. I’m not sure how it will cast on the fly rod but please use a Sage and not the HT (in case you it the tip :D )

Cheers, Paul
I have to hope that I don't cast the MED over 35 then :p

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#64

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:32 am

James9118 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:46 am
Lasse - how far can you chuck a 20g weight single handed with your non-flyfishing outfit (I can't even bring myself to say it :D )
Aren't you hauling? 😉

Haven't measured singlehanded, not so good there, last time I broke my daughters rod, she's still mad at me :blush:
But if I get time, I'll do a trial this afternoon...

Around 70-80 is plausibel for a good caster, 100 meters like Paul suggests is from never measuring :D

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Lasse
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http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

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Merlin
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#65

Post by Merlin » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:49 am

As I read a document on the string shooter, explaining the effect of drag, I thought this could be extended to the fly line. Here are two graphics to show the reasoning behind. We might well be too much loop centric.
String shooter mechanism.JPG
Fly line mechanism.JPG
Just a strange idea maybe, but I think worth some thinking. Even form drag on the loop could contribute somehow, but to me they key is in the fly leg. Could that explain the behavior of the line described in Dirk's video analysis?

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
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Paul Arden
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#66

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:42 pm

I have to hope that I don't cast the MED over 35 then :p
Dude, I'm expecting a 40m cast. Otherwise I want two beers :p

Cheers,
Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Paul Arden
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#67

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:47 pm

That reminds me, I must visit the workshop and pick up my old thruster motors! It was closed last week when I went to collect them. Hopefully I can build a string shooter before Graeme gets here :cool:

Thanks, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Dirk le Roux
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#68

Post by Dirk le Roux » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:54 pm

Merlin wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:32 am
The sag is growing in the rod leg, suggesting a deceleration from the line (and loop). Does this trend go on as the loop nose raise a little bit more?

If I understand correctly the speed profile of the FC, the line accelerates at the very end, so it would be interesting to have an illustration of the sag at that time. Incidentally the tilt angle for the fly leg becomes negative.
Hi Merlin

After MCF (tip position at the time indicated by the white arrow) there was a little pullback to where the tip position is captured in the first image below, followed by drift and lowering of the rod tip as indicated by the rest of the rod tip path (red track). This introduced a small wave into the rod leg, which may seem to exaggerate the sag.

In this first image, you can see that the fly speed is lowest at this time and the FC track speed from there to about 2.1s tells the story of those rod tip movements a bit:
PB stop.jpg

The next image at t 2.1s shows fly leg speed just going into the steep acceleration phase and the resultant tension effect on a point on the line tracked as "Sag marker 1" (turquoise), which is now not falling:
sag 1.jpg

This last image shows the situation near the end of leader roll-out (which is now out of frame) and both sag markers "not falling". Interesting that the more forward Sag marker 2 (orange) seems to hover very briefly:
sag 2.jpg

Regards,
Dirk

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gordonjudd
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#69

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:56 pm

An observer could interpret the behavior of the accelerating ball has being lifted by comparison to the normal ball, but this is just a question of dynamics (and not aerodynamics in this simple example).
Merlin,
I assume the acceleration in your scenario was only in the x-direction.

What would the observer see if he measured the height of the accelerated line when the non-accelerated line hit the ground? You gave the answer in your diagram that noted "same fall time."

Thus the only way for the fly line to stay in the air longer than a piece of line dropped at the same time and the same height of the loop when it is fully formed at MCF is if there is an upward source of acceleration in the +y acceleration that will give the loop some added fall time.

In the Rowen's cast the difference in the fall time between the dropped line and the loop was around .5 seconds. What is the source of the upward acceleration on the loop that would account for that big of a difference?

Gordy

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gordonjudd
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Re: A Climbing Loop?

#70

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:13 pm

the resultant tension effect on a point on the line
Dirk,
What is the net effect of the internal tension at any point in the line?

Since internal tension is a double ended force could it provide any net force on the line?

I seems to me that internal tension forces will cancel out all around the line so I don't see how that internal tension could help to support the loop end of the catenary formed in the rod leg.

Gordy

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