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Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

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nicholasfmoore
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Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#1

Post by nicholasfmoore » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:44 pm

Hello everyone,

Somebody asked me about leader construction last week, and i was wondering what knot other people use to connect flurocarbon to mono? I used to use a 3 turn water knot, then I went to a double uni knot, and now I loop to loop my tippet to my tapered leader for general trout fishing (this is with one fly! Droppers are different). This is the best system I've found in terms of strength. What is everyone's thoughts?

All the best

Nick

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Paul Arden
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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:27 am

Hi Nick,

I think the best one is the one that doesn’t include fluorocarbon :laugh:

If I’m trout fishing and joining tippet to a tapered leader I use a Sheepgirl Ring and ten turn half blood knots or a Eugene Bend.

Cheers, Paul
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Viking Lars
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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#3

Post by Viking Lars » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:57 am

First of all - fluorocarbon is *also* a monofilament, it's just fc instead of nylon, which is what most people refer to as "mono".
Next - I very rarely use fc, and when I do it's almost always for the entire leader. On the rare occasions I do knot fc to nylon, I generally use a 2-3 turns Surgeon's Knot (whuich I believe is the same as the Waterknot?) or a Uni-to-Uni. These two are generally the best in joining "incompatible" materials, also when it comes to bigger deifferences in diameter etc.

But truth be told, I've never done any testing when using them on fc to nylon - just a gut feeling that they "strong enough", and I've certainly not had them fail more than other knots.

Lars

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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#4

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:13 pm

When considering knots you really need to take into consideration the relative diameters of the two lines!

If the diameters are similar or relatively the same, then back to back uni-knots will work pretty good.

I most commonly am attaching a thick fluoro bite tippet to relatively thin nylon "class" tippet, and in that case I go with a Slim Beauty Knot. With that connection I will double the nylon with a Bimini Twist only when I want maximum security, but that is rarely necessary.

An extreme situation that I sometimes encounter is attaching a rod length section of fluoro "leader" to gel spun on my spinning rod. There I will use a modification of the back to back unit knot. The mod is I use my nail knot device on my nippers to form a nail knot in the fluoro. In the gel spun I just use the standard uni. That connection is strong and the tag end of the fluoro flows through the rod guides smoothly when casting.

That spinning rod connection commonly lasts through many fishing trips as I attach a bite tippet to the hook end of the fluoro and continously replace it as it shortens from multiple lure changes. That last knot (fluoro to bite) is usually a quick blood knot as both the fluoro and the bite are much heavier than the gel spun on the reel so no need for extra strength there!

I have settled on those connections after years of experiments, but I will look into this "J" knot. I expect it is only appropriate for relatively similar diameters.

As an aside, if you really want to get into knots - try climbing! When your life is a stake you really begin to get serious about knots.
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#5

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:58 pm

Yes - you can also tie the Slim Beauty (I always assumed this was an Australian knot but apparently it’s not :laugh:) with the tippet doubled before being passed through the 8. This would save James from tying a Bimini around Tracy’s finger on the flats :) It’s an interesting one to test but will still shorten the tapered leader by the same amount. (I think I’m in two topics at once here :laugh:)

Personally I don’t use pre-made tapered leaders in the Salt and instead tie my own, with few steps. When I do use a tapered leader I always use a sheep girl ring which keeps the integrity of the tapered leader working for about a week. Not that I have actually spent a week trout fishing this year :D

Cheers, Paul
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#6

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:40 am

Thank you all for the excellent comments. I did actually know that Lars, it's funny as I'm usually the person correcting other people on jargon :pirate: I cannot believe I put that! Must be a brainwashing thing after hearing the term used every time I go fishing. Thank you for this.

The slim beauty is a lovely knot, I used to use it quite a lot but I can't remember why I stopped tying it :sorcerer:

Yes Lars, thats right we sometimes refer to a surgeons knot as a water knot, I don't know why. Likewise for the uni knot, we call it a grinner.

Thank you for your help, in the future I think I'm going to stop using fluorocarbon for trout. :whistle:

All the best

Nick

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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:44 pm

Surgeons/ Water knot / Cove knot. I learned it from Arthur Cove by way of his book. It’s an interesting knot. I’ve found 2 turns beats 3 turns in tests with materials I nowadays use. The J is very similar to the 2 turn and stronger.

But throw Fluoro into the mix and I don’t know. That’s such a strange material. I was never sold on it and always felt it was the Emperor’s new clothes.

Get this Nick - when I was a teenager I was fishing with Maxima. On that spool it stated “Maxima - the line that the fish cannot see”! It was fucking brown. And I don’t mean light transparent brown, but rather a dark solid brown, like trees, or nymphs can be.

When I put fluorocarbon in a glass of water I can see it. Poor knot strength, invisible to a blind fish, sinks faster - can be good apparently - and “higher abrasion resistance”. Sort of left there with higher abrasion resistance which is really difficult to test for, even harder than sticking it in a glass of water to see if you can see it. But higher price that’s easily measured. I think fluorocarbon is one of those big con jobs. In fact nylon monofilament for “fly fishing” is already a con. I buy coarse or sea fishing mono. It’s the same stuff but packaged differently.

The other thing you need to know is not only do some manufacturers imagine that their tippet breaks at far higher breaking strengths than it actually does but their micrometers are dysfunctional. I go purely by diameter. Not what it states on the spool but by what it actually measures. Everything else can be ignored.

Cheers,
Paul

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#8

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Glad this year is getting to an end, a post by Paul, I fully agree on 😎

Cheers
Lasse
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***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#9

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:00 pm

:laugh:
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: Best flurocarbon to mono knot?

#10

Post by nicholasfmoore » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:50 pm

I go by the X number too, Paul! I think i am going to stop using it. I have had fluorocarbon break at some weird random points in the line, and this was tightening up knots, testing knots at home with a gauge, and when fighting a particularly large salmon. The knots didn't slip and they were fine, no 'bad casting knots' etc. It's a very strange material.

Did you do much salmon fishing over here, Paul? After speaking to a lot of the 'ye oldie' guys with PVC waders, they just use Maxima.

Thanks for all your responses, this is a great resource!

All the best

Nick

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