PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik

nicholasfmoore
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#1

Post by nicholasfmoore » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:55 pm

Hi all,

I don't see this one discussed a lot, and it has come about because an angler asked me a couple of days ago. He watched the Joan Wulff DVD and she mentions that she waits for the fly line to unroll (she does btw), and not the leader. Just out of interest, who waits for the fly line to unroll, and who waits for the fly line AND leader to unroll fully? A small nuance, but i found it interesting.

Some people teach to initiate the forward cast just before the fly line straightens, and some say to wait until the line fully unrolls. Thoughts on this? I do know it can depend on the student, too.

All the best

Nick

User avatar
James9118
Posts: 1145
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:59 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#2

Post by James9118 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm

As soon as the loop disappears (i.e. the fly-line is straight - not necessarily the leader) then the force that keeps the rod-leg taut also disappears and sag sets in. Sag contributes to BDB (Bernd's dangly bits) and isn't to be encouraged. As such, I prefer to go early - so long as the leader isn't cracking then you're good.

James.

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3832
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#3

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:51 pm

What James said 😊

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

nicholasfmoore
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#4

Post by nicholasfmoore » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:53 pm

Great stuff, James! Short and sweet 😀 If people do get sag do you ask them to try and start the next stroke a 'tiny' bit earlier?

Additionally, do you think the end of the leader/fly popping is a big problem? I.E. Not an almighty crack

All the best

Nick

User avatar
James9118
Posts: 1145
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:59 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#5

Post by James9118 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:04 pm

I'd tell them to wait a bit longer - especially if I was in a casting competition against them :D :D :D :pirate:

nicholasfmoore
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#6

Post by nicholasfmoore » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:18 pm

I like that, James. 😂😂😂

John Waters
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#7

Post by John Waters » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:48 pm

Hi Nick,

Are you referring to the front cast, back cast or both with your question?

John

nicholasfmoore
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#8

Post by nicholasfmoore » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:17 pm

Hi John,

Both casts, but mainly the back cast :)

All the best

Nick

John Waters
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#9

Post by John Waters » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:40 am

Hi Nick,

For me it depends on the objective of the cast. For judging the correct length of fly and leader required for an accurate lay down cast, I extend both line and leader on the front cast before beginning a back cast. If I know the line length and want to increase the tempo, I may begin the backcast before the line has straightened in front. Depending on the application and the gear, that may mean a fly leg length of up to a third of the rod leg, and no pause on the forward cast. That option is far more effective with heavy, dense lines than light floating lines. For the back cast, I always want the line to extend fully but the trajectory upon which the line extends is also a focus. For short casts I do not watch my backcast. As the length of line increases in the backcast and I lose control of the loop by casting with my forearm in front of shoulder, I then watch the back cast and attempt to have the line straighten. If there is a lot of line being carried it is difficult to sometimes see the leader so I focus on the line. At my maximum carry length, I sometimes have difficulty seeing the end of the line, let alone the leader e.g in very bright sunshine, but practice can help with subconsciously identifying the elapsed time on various backcasts, so you can mitigate against not extending the line on the backcast fully on those hard to see days. Just to round off the variations, for distance casts, sometimes I do not let the line straighten fully on the forward cast, before beginning my back cast, but that is gear and tempo dependent.
Lasse, James and Paul are correct though, the killer of loop effectiveness is sag. It is ever-present, the key is to minimise the impact. If my back cast sags too much, I try to get the line to extend in a shorter time. Your body movement and haul can help a lot with loop speed on the back cast.
Like all things, there are exceptions to every rule, for me the essence of casting is identifying those exceptions and developing a niche for every such exception.
I enjoy reading your posts, thanks,

John

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Timing - just the fly line, or the leader and fly line?

#10

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:33 pm

How about neither?

I was taught and continue to believe that you should watch for a "J" shape or a "candy cane" shape in the line as the clue to begin the opposite cast. The reason for this is that there is a delay between when we think "move" and when our hand actually does move. Synaptic delay... we are not as quick as we think we are.

Otherwise, if you watch for straight, you will be aiming for the duck where it is, not where it will be when the shot arrives.

Maybe this is another thing due to age? I practice distance casting with leaders tied with fluorescent green mono... and I still cannot see them on a long carry.

Besides, most of the time, when fishing, i do not watch the backcast... my forward cast is based on tension felt in the line hand.

When demonstrating, I have instructed students to watch the line between my hand and the stripper guide so they can see the slack change to tension. When the rod is in their own hands, i tell them to watch for the "J" as a clue for when they should feel for the tension themselves.
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

Post Reply

Return to “Flycasting”