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Thrust?

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Thrust?

#21

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:44 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:24 am

Different momentums I find confusing and I’m not following the thinking in this regards yet.
Paul,

It was Mac that lit that light over my head. He was demonstrating a simple in-the-air mend, like they used to ask in the FFF test, where you make an out-and-back or in-and-back move after loop formation. He briefly added that accentuating one move and relaxing the other would impart a momentary change in momentum which would result in a curve.

Calling it an impulse or out-of-line thrust was a product of my mind... probably due to too many drugs in my youth? But, I think, what is happening is a change in momentum, which sets up a wave, in this case horizontal, and that shows up as a curve when the cast is settled onto the water.

It also made me wonder if it would not be an easier way to produce both right and left curves from a vertical rod plane. I played with that very briefly and it appears to be the case.

For the fishing I do, being able to perform good curved presentation is the primary difference between an eat and a spook.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Thrust?

#22

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:40 pm

Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:44 pm
Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:24 am

Different momentums I find confusing and I’m not following the thinking in this regards yet.
Paul,

It was Mac that lit that light over my head. He was demonstrating a simple in-the-air mend, like they used to ask in the FFF test, where you make an out-and-back or in-and-back move after loop formation. He briefly added that accentuating one move and relaxing the other would impart a momentary change in momentum which would result in a curve.

Calling it an impulse or out-of-line thrust was a product of my mind... probably due to too many drugs in my youth? But, I think, what is happening is a change in momentum, which sets up a wave, in this case horizontal, and that shows up as a curve when the cast is settled onto the water.

It also made me wonder if it would not be an easier way to produce both right and left curves from a vertical rod plane. I played with that very briefly and it appears to be the case.

For the fishing I do, being able to perform good curved presentation is the primary difference between an eat and a spook.
We still ask for those simple in the air mends😊

Was Mac's thing like a snap in the air?



Here it's done almost in line, doing it sideways gives a nice 90 degrees, but it's damn hard to get it to travel for a longer cast, thee the circular version in the corkscrew cast/mend is easier.

Cheers
Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: Thrust?

#23

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:41 pm

Hi guys,

Yep. It’s interesting that a very early mend can send a wave down the line that gives a close or similar configuration to a curve cast. We should probably try listing them all and describing how each one works. There are MANY!! :D

JB’s curve is a really interesting one. If you delay the V-mend and make it a snap you can flip the line end back on itself creating a curve the opposite way :D

I use the overpowered curve regularly for my fishing here in the jungle. Mends less so but I’m using a lot of speed in my cast which lends itself better to casts and not mends.

Cheers, Paul
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Geenomad
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Re: Thrust?

#24

Post by Geenomad » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:57 pm

Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:21 pm
As Paul stated above, it can help with focusing the loop for casting into the wind... and it can poke your fly back under the mangroves too. I do not see a great increase in line speed though, some but not that much, so I suspect the rod absorbs most of the input or the tip just does not have as much influence on the line compared to what the lower section of the rod has already imparted. I think it effects loop shape much more than line speed.
I agree it's not a great increase in speed but for me it's quite significant. I cast a lot to a target 60' away so have the effort involved pretty well grooved. If I make a "normal" presentation at that distance and then add in a bit of TLT thrust on the next one it will definitely arrive with more zip or go further if line is released. How much more? Guesstimate would be somewhere between 10% and 15%.

I wish I had this stuff in the bag when I was down your way a long time ago and poking flies under the docks.
Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:21 pm
The thing is, off my head I can think of about 4 common ways to make a curve with acceleration. So, we are leaving out under-powered ones for now. You mentioned two, Paul's "boing", and a simple deviation from 180 are the others. All of those 4, I see as being applied during the major part of translation/rotation.

And, additionally, the one I use most commonly involves a thrust (the topic) coupled with an abrupt supination or pronation of the wrist. Some day we should have a dedicated thread on curves so I can make weird claims like this curve being caused by a form of pull-back.
I agree it would be good to round up the different curve casts. FWIW I think the wave mend varieties are probably all "underpowered" in the sense that you have to set them down before the wave goes too far along the medium. I must play some more with supination and pronation induced curves. Can't get these to happen nicely at any real distance though and am inclined to tag them as underpowered curves.

BTW thanks for the tip about using curves to avoid spooks. Gives me incentive to increase the range and improve the accuracy of my curve casts. :cool:

Cheers
Mark
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Paul Arden
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Re: Thrust?

#25

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:04 am

There are corkscrew and snap mends which are both waves that can be used to flip the leader, fly and line end one war or the other. I’m not sure if these are over or underpowered :D I usually go by the line configuration related to the casting shoulder to describe over/underpowered. Positive/negative curves is even more confusing :laugh:

Cheers, Paul
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Morsie
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Re: Thrust?

#26

Post by Morsie » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:10 am

Jeezus, way to highjack a fucking thread. Take a conversation about turning curves into straight lines with 2 handers and turn it into throwing curves from straight lines with single handers. Get outta here you bunch of single handed wankers, this is for the boys with the big sticks.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Thrust?

#27

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:12 pm



Two hands are for the weak and old 😉
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Re: Thrust?

#28

Post by Morsie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:05 pm

Yeah I can do that too Lasse, unfortunately its not allowed in the THCI......

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Re: Thrust?

#29

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:33 am

Morsie wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:10 am
Jeezus, way to highjack a fucking thread. Take a conversation about turning curves into straight lines with 2 handers and turn it into throwing curves from straight lines with single handers. Get outta here you bunch of single handed wankers, this is for the boys with the big sticks.
Morsie

Sorry for throwing a curve into this thread!

I am pretty sure it was my fault.

My only excuse it that by following SL from the Quick Links / Recent Posts drop-down I did not read the fine print.

My apologies.

BTW... what is a wanker?
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

Morsie
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Re: Thrust?

#30

Post by Morsie » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:39 am

Just a light hearted Australian insult. Believe me I'm not upset and was laughing as I wrote this.......

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