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Curve Casts

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Thomas_E » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:53 pm


I never heard from "Ling’s Cunning curve cast", is there a Vid., or a good explanation ?


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Paul Arden
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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Paul Arden » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:36 pm

Dr Ling a Malaysia MCI. Top bloke despite renting me a truck that died after only two months. :D

Basically it’s purposefully using tracking to create curves. Eg Backcast off to 45 degrees, forward cast straight, cast curves. Most people change the forward cast but the backcast positioning is often a neater option.

That’s essentially it.

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Gmstuart1 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:38 pm

Hi Paul,

Is it just because the loop doesn't straighten? It seems like a classic example of the line following the rod tip to me. I know one thing you didn't mention is deceleration and the rod fade portion. The fade definitely aides in the loop not turning over because it lays on the water faster. Many could turn over if the fade were not executed. I find the point at which I make the snap and my palm faces me in the stroke determines the curve length and placement distance. It's hard to teach people to decelerate since it doesn't really look like it's happening. Many just throw a lazy big loop that doesn't straighten, but to me this isn't really a "Curve Cast". I guess by definition it is, but it's way cooler to do it with speed and a hard 90 degree lay down.

Your part about the overpowered is exactly how I've heard an Engineer explain it, but the other part they mentioned was that when you have something unattached like the fly line the wave starts on the right side (Outside to a right hander to make the line curve left). There was a tool online that showed this I can't find. If the line it attached to a pole at the other end the wave would return on the inside apparently. This is probably basic to some here, but still seemed interesting.

I've never tried the haul version....gotta check that out too!


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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Paul Arden » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Hi Greg,
Is it just because the loop doesn't straighten
There are a few casts here, if it’s Ling’s curve then I think it’s also a wave in the horizontal plane.

With the returning wave on overpowered I agree; the wave returns directly opposite the loop. For that reason when I teach overpowered curves, I teach to incline the trajectory slightly on the delivery. A common fault is that the loop turns over and the fly kicks down and not around.

The haul version is awesome! I’ll play with this tomorrow. What a fantastic idea! I can see this giving more control to the presentation. Currently it’s takes me a few goes to get this curve right, which is no use for a seldom used cast.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:28 pm


I, of course, would love an indepth thread on curve casts!

But, can we first come up with some sort of consensus on terminology?.

Like how to describe the most basic descriptor... what the completed cast looks like?

Positive / negative?
Left / right
Inside / outside?
Adducted/ Abducted?

Or, how the cast is performed?

Overpowered / underpowered
Accelerated/ decelerated?
Horizontal, vertical, canted, out of plane... Etc. Etc.

It doesn't have to be like birthing the SL definitions... just a consensus. We could just adopt the terms from a respected published book like JB's.

But until then it will be tough...
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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Geenomad » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:39 am

Hi Gary
On the same page again/still. Structure before content. Practicality before taxonomic purity. :D Suggest we might start with what the basics and what is clear then add/fit in the less obvious, trickier classifications later.

As a left hander I am used to transposing the usual offerings but it would be nice to accommodate fellow members of my minority.

My initial thought was to start with the the essence of how - underpowered and overpowered. Then it dawned that the svirgolato (as I understand it) is essentially an underpowered curve made to finish the opposite way with an overpower tweak. Perhaps this could apply to other curves. But I am getting too far ahead here.

Shape and Direction of the completed curve seems to be the next step. eg 90deg v. Arc. Left/Right make most sense to me. An S curve would be both in the order of landing from caster to fly.

Instructions for each - brief or longer, in words/diagrams first and hopefully video demos second.Casters can figure out scenarios and choices for themselves but diagrams could show examples of applications/solutions.

Just my thoughts. Happy to go along with the consensus for organising this stuff.

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:14 am

The curved launch that I have described, is not sidetracked (even if it is similar), tlt does not use pulling the line, if you want to call it so for convenience it's okay, nothing changes me, probably, theirs was a copy paste but without knowing how it works (I have shown it many times in Italy).

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Malik » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:54 pm

Hi !
The Italian style curve cast of which Paul struggles to pronounce the name is the "svirgolato" or twist cast :D .
It's actually a crossing loop where the fly leg goes left then turn right (if you are right-handed). Playing with the power application and the timing of the shoot, you can also obtain a very efficient hook cast to the left.
The trick of the svirgolato is just to "twist the tip" of the rod during the stop and not before or after it. Not really difficult but timing is critical. For those how are familiar with the "pull back", it's exactly the same timing challenge. With some practice you can control very well the trajectory of the fly and even when you want the fly leg turns from left to the right. There is many way to twist the tip of a rod during the stop.
A good training to master one of the main component of this cast is to train to control the trajectory of the fly leg of a TL or of a crossing loop on a vertical plane. This training helps as well to master "Tailing Loop curves" to the left or to the right, as I demonstrated it at the London Fair last year.
Here is an old video I have made to help people to visualise the trajectory of the tippet and the fly on a regular svrigolato. Great to avoid an obstacle to your right. Great drag-free presentation.

Hope it helps.

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Silver Creek » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm

The Sky Curve Cast was described by Joe Mahler in about 2012. The original on-line article has been taken down but I have videos and an illustrations of the rod tip motion.

The illustrations for the rod stroke of a sky curve is below.

Sky Curve


Another curve cast is the Corkscrew Curve Cast which was first described in 1980 by Bob Pelzl and Gary Borger on pg. 58 of the 1980 Early Season issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine titled "Corkscrew Curve Cast". Jason Borger demonstrating this cast in a video on his blog but since Jason moved his blog, it is no longer available.

Here are two illustrations from the original article:



Here is a video of Lasse Karlsson performing the Corkscrew Curve Cast

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Re: Curve Casts


Post by Boisker » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:29 pm

Any chance one of you kind fellas who can make these casts could do a vid showing some of them, but filmed so you can see the arm/wrist/stroke in detail? Like Paul’s app vids????
I love the curve casts, and like watching the vids of them that are knocking about, but they are always shot to show how ‘cool’ the cast is rather than what the hand/wrist is doing...
:D :D :D

There was a vid of Jason B demo’ing an inverted V cast knocking about online, but it seems to have disappeared... or probably more accurately, I can’t find it :whistle:

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