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New Student / Casting “tune-up”

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Paul Arden
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#11

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 am

Tracking.
Power application.
Trajectory.

In that order. Tracking is the biggest one. Many casters curve their backcast strokes. So learning to deliver straight is the first challenge. Imagine casting from the bottom left blue mark to the centre or bottom right blue mark. Many struggle with this shot. It needs line speed because it’s quartering into the wind. Best grip is rod butt under forearm 170. Most casters curve the rod tip dramatically through the stroke and the loop doesn’t go anywhere.

Cheers, Paul
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Lee Cummings
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#12

Post by Lee Cummings » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:51 am

I can related to this on forward casts too with shooting heads as much of my fishing is into front quartering headwinds, which reminds me I have a novel technique I’ve been using for a lot of years now which I wanted to post a video about, however the name of the cast will give away the mark and that made me twitchy lol....:D

I’ll do a separate post ;)

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Paul Arden
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#13

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:56 am

Mystery Mark X Cast?
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nicholasfmoore
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#14

Post by nicholasfmoore » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:59 pm

Lee Cummings wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:51 am
I can related to this on forward casts too with shooting heads as much of my fishing is into front quartering headwinds, which reminds me I have a novel technique I’ve been using for a lot of years now which I wanted to post a video about, however the name of the cast will give away the mark and that made me twitchy lol....:D

I’ll do a separate post ;)
Looking forward to that, Lee :)
Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 am
Tracking.
Power application.
Trajectory.

In that order. Tracking is the biggest one. Many casters curve their backcast strokes. So learning to deliver straight is the first challenge. Imagine casting from the bottom left blue mark to the centre or bottom right blue mark. Many struggle with this shot. It needs line speed because it’s quartering into the wind. Best grip is rod butt under forearm 170. Most casters curve the rod tip dramatically through the stroke and the loop doesn’t go anywhere.

Cheers, Paul
You know how obsessed i am with tracking :laugh: I had to use a back cast delivery yesterday (this really shows up any tracking faults as you know) nearly smashing the rod tip into the water with a full arm length haul. I use finger on top for distance and accuracy, but then again i have very strong fingers that are 'almost' as strong as my thumb.

All the best!
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:

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Paul Arden
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#15

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:55 pm

Maybe one of the biggest issues is that most casters aren’t used to fully straightening their arm on the backcast. And so it’s a sort of no-man’s land for their rod hand. And this delivery is really about doing just that.

Another big problem, I find, is that the body position is incorrect. Instead of the shoulders being closely aligned to the target, they are trying to cast around the body. Consequently the wide tracking error.

And finally :p I notice that they’re usually looking the wrong way and look at the target almost as an afterthought!

Cheers, Paul
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GoldenDorado
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#16

Post by GoldenDorado » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:19 pm

Hi Paul.
I‘ve found that, for teaching, no matter the casting level, students benefit from going back to the basics, explaining every step. I believe that if you know what you are doing and why, the learning process is much easier and effective. For that, I base my teaching method in five principles (as learned from mi instructor, Fernando Mosso, FFF Master instructor), which are:1-Constant tension (no slack line throughout all the casting stroke) 2-Correct application of force (smooth acceleration to a stop);3- Correct pause, 4-Variable casting stroke and 5-Alignment, or 180º rule.
So the first exercise with intermediate or advanced students (also with newcomers) is circles, ovals and eights (constant tension exercises) with varying lenghts of line, so as to teach them to PULL the line, to apply force smoothly, and to feel the rod load.
Then for the correct application of force (2º principle) I go to the excellent Lee Cummins triangle method (which I learned from your app when it was available, but I renamed it as the trapeze method so as to incorporate learning hand path from the beginning). Once they perform simmetrical loops with correct application of force both in fc anb bc, I start to teach or correct the pause (start the movement in the opposite direction once the line unrolls and the leader starts to unroll), also on the floor with Lee`s method, first practising pause aerialising line in the back cast, then in the forward cast. Once mastered, they must "raise" the trapeze and perform loops simmetrical in fc and bc, in continuous false casts, an excellent exercise to be consistent in casting stroke, pause and application of force.
For the 4th principle, variable casting arc, I go again to the floor and trapeze, indicating to perform loops with different lenghts of line and indicating the adjustments needed to deal with it, short strokes, short hand path, short casting arc for little line out, large strokes, large hand path, large casting arc for long line carry. Also in the floor, correct or teach hand path, displacement of the hand with passive rotation of the rod or drag with active and delayed rotation. Again, raising the trapeze, and false casting, correct the pause, shorter with little line and larger with long line out.
Final exercise for casting arc is adjustments on the fly, start false casting with 2 mt out and progressively add line until torpedo is out, then releasing, making all the adjustments needed (again, little line=.short hand displacement, short stroke, short pause; Long line=longer hand displacement, longer stroke, longer pause)
For tracking, I correct students individually, being the most common mistake, rotating the stroke in BC.
For correcting or teaching double haul again I start from the trapeze on the floor in the sequence I learned from your app, then raise it.

This method, with Lee´s formula as a base not only makes teaching from zero quite easy and effective, it is also an excellent tool to fix casting vices from experienced casters, being the most frequent in my experience, back casts errors, slack line errors, improper application of force , tracking.

Cheers, Sebastian

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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:43 am

Hi Sebastian,

The app videos are available here https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/introduction/ and if I haven’t sent you a link you can email me and I’ll send you a link where you can download all the original files in HD if you want.

That’s basically the five essentials model (Bill Gammel) but 180 being tip path which both encompasses tracking as well as the other four working together. Viewed this way the 5 become a casting model.

Sounds like you have an excellent structured teaching program. That’s pretty much what I do - although I only drop in circles/8s/straights when there is a wrist problem I can’t solve. I wish I had known this when I started teaching - I must have given a lot of really crappy lessons in the beginning :D

Cheers, Paul
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GoldenDorado
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#18

Post by GoldenDorado » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:36 am

Thanks a lot Paul, I'll send you an email later so as to download the files. In my learning curve, the moment that changed completely my mind and improved dramatically my casting was when Marcelo Morales, an excellent instructor and sales manager of Sage in Argentina, came to my town for a clinic, and said that there had to be the same tension from the tip of the rod to the fly. That constant tension concept is what I repeat to my studdnts through all the lessons, as it helps in almost every step. I start with circles and eights for that t reason, also to make the first contact of students with a fly rod, a pleasant moment, I remember my first casting lesson twelve years ago, two hours unsuccesfully trying to learn to roll cast with a #8 rod (mel Krieger method, axing a log concept), it was a torture. Fortunately when I became my local asociation instructor I found your teaching method, it is much more logical and effective than the one we used before, so thanks to you and Lee Cummings!
Cheers,
Sebastián

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Paul Arden
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Re: New Student / Casting “tune-up”

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:19 pm

Tension is an interesting topic, Sebastian. Lee would like a pair of “Tension Glasses” - a bit like x-ray specs. Where high tension areas are bright red and low tension areas are blue (or something like that :p ). And certainly when you ask the physicists about this there are some disagreements. I personally would prefer X-Ray specs! :cool:

Teaching-wise, thinking about Tension is a really excellent and important way to understand casting. There are some questions about this but some would say that the tension between the rod tip and the front of the loop is *fairly* constant and in the fly leg it is maximum at the top of the loop and disappears to zero or the air resistance of the fly at the other end. Certainly there does seem to be some tension force at the front of the loop, but IMO at least, the main reason flycasting works is that the fly leg has momentum and the tension helps to keep the loop stable and rolling over. We are not all quite on the same page there but we are at least on the same planet!

It is quite fascinating how our understanding evolves. Teaching wise I mostly stay clear of physics and try to teach people to dance with the line! It is an incredible skill, to control the line with a loop. I really enjoy teaching “advanced” level casting. These fast Snakehead shots, putting the fly down first for Gourami - both great fun. And of course being paid to take someone fishing is probably the best job on Earth!! :D

Cheers, Paul
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