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Large SH rod videos?

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Large SH rod videos?

#1

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:47 pm

Hey folks... I got a question...

I recently spent the good part of a hot sweaty day casting a relatively large fly continuously. There were plenty of tarpon showing but apparently they were not much in the mood to eat. So, it became a game of casting practice until interrupted by fish.

The rod was not all that big (10 wt) and the fly was not all that big either (~5 inches), but that combo can become a bit of a chore after a while. Especially when you are trying to cover as much water as possible. It is, however, a great setting for casting mechanics experimentation.

I found that my transition from back cast to forward delivery was cumbersome and not at all optimal. So, I thought I would go online and watch how the experts do it. What I found, mostly, was what I would consider rather poor casting, and no "teaching".

Does anyone know of a decent video for casting bigger rods that isn't 2 handed or with shooting heads???

Thanks in advance...

Gary
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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Paul Arden
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:15 pm

Hi Gary,

I don’t now about videos but I do know that under these circumstances I go from “open 170” to compact “‘Rajeff’”. That I can do all day.

Sorry I can’t help with videos without making one :) Personally I think you should make one and I’ll watch it :)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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James9118
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#3

Post by James9118 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:46 pm

Hi Gary,

When I'm after predators in the tropics, i.e. with a big fly to chuck combined with the weight of a substantial wire bite tippet, then I'm almost the opposite of Paul - I want the rod tip well out of the way for fear of hitting it with all the metalwork, as such I lay-back the rod quite far. What I do notice is that my set-up feels 'clunky' (especially at turn-over) on a short line, but this improves once there's a decent weight of line out of the tip.

One thing that applies to me is that I can get a bit lazy with my haul when fishing. I don't know whether this comes from a general feeling of throttling back from comp casting that I get whilst fishing, but when I've seen film of me fishing I often think a bit more haul would be beneficial. Once I remind myself to switch on my comp haul (or near it) for casting my heavy saltwater fishing outfit, then all is well.

James

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Graeme H
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#4

Post by Graeme H » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:43 am

Hi Gary,

I've got a few videos on my own channel showing myself casting a 10wt 8' fibreglass rod and a 12wt 9' 'glass rod, but they aren't teaching videos as such. Just me showing off a little. Would that help?

Cheers,
Graeme
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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#5

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:08 am

Graeme,

Of course, I would love to watch you show off! How do I find your channel?

Part of the problem is I agree with both Paul and James. :upside:

For me to get a good back cast I open up, translate long, tuck the rod to protect my tendons and haul long. For the forward cast, I agree with Paul, elbow forward to make use of the shoulder muscles makes it much easier.

My clunkiness is in that translation between the two. The BC takes my elbow outside and not necessarily high, but on the FC I want my elbow up and in so I can rotate at at the shoulder and pull down. Getting from A to B is the tough part for me. It is easier on land because I can shift weight and rotate my trunk to switch my shoulders, but all that movement is not practical when standing of the casting deck of a flats boat. Forget about it in a canoe.

I guess I'll have to go complete Rajeff and sacrifice a long carry on the BC. I just can't get that much into the BC when lifting those lines and flies with the shortening of my input. I'm afraid my days of relying on my wrist to lift, then laying back might be over. I gotta tuck to protect from what seems to be minor but permanent "caster's elbow". :(
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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Graeme H
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#6

Post by Graeme H » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:27 am

Hi Gary,

Here are three videos I had in mind in my last post. Like I said, there's little educational value, but you can see how I did it a few years ago. A little bit has changed in my style since then, mainly during the pause.

(The Blue B@st@rd is a single piece 10wt 'glass rod that is 8' long.)







(This is Epic's Boca Grande, a 4pc 12wt 'glass rod.)


Cheers,
Graeme
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Paul Arden
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:56 am

I actually agree with James too! If that fly is messy when it turns over then there is no choice but to open up. However if it’s reasonably in balance then I find that style more tiring when fishing the water with heavier gear. Instead I use the shoulder to “block” the backcast. So for “shots” I’m fully open like James, but if I’m “prospecting” then I’ll sacrifice some distance and use a compact stroke - assuming that I haven’t tied a brick on the end.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#8

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:39 pm

Graeme,

Thank you!

Very nice casting, spectacular actually... and not just cuz it looks a lot like how I try to do it!

The rods lit a light bulb... I have been trying lighter ((therefore faster) rods thinking they will be less of a workout. That may have been an error in my thinking?

I am going to dig out an old Heliply and see if... dare I say it.... maybe some more spring and less swing may make my life easier?

Thanks again

Gary
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

John Waters
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#9

Post by John Waters » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:25 am

Hi Gary,

Primarily, the rod movement is based on the fly size, not the rod. With large, heavy flies you need to cycle the rod. In contrast, light flies can be cast in a close to vertical plane, over the shoulder. The rod size should not determine the movement of the rod on either the forward or back cast. Let me give you an example. There are no stiffer, heavier single handed rods than those used in casting a 15.5 metre long (approx) shooting head tournament line, weighing 38 gram and the very best casters in the world use a near vertical, over the shoulder plane for their rod travel, forward and back. I know that is a tournament, not a fishing example but the technique holds for all rods. Those rods are not even rated with a size, as per a fishing rod, but if you believe the Joan Wulff's reference in her book, these rods are the equivalent of a #17 rod. In her book, I presume she is referring to the Loomis Tournament casting rods which are now many decades old and have been superseded by lighter but single handed, stiffer tournament rods from other manufacturers in the decades that have elapsed since her book was published. The current single handed fly rods used for this purpose would be rated higher than #17. My point is that these casters use very stiff rods in a near vertical plane because they use a standard tournament fly which is on a size 10 hook, bend removed. If they were using a heavy, large fly, they would have to change their plane. It is only the US casters who use the short stroke technique now, European casters use a much wider casting arc and have pushed the limits now to 85 metres with a single handed fly rod. It is the dual plane technique that will deliver for heavy flies, and you can get that with either a short arc or a wide arc. I would suggest that you not move your rod off the vertical plane for the standard stroke, forward and back, unless your fly size demands it. Angled or dual planes then only become a variation on the theme, not the standard

John

Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Large SH rod videos?

#10

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm

John

Thanks!

My fly / line ratio is a bit different than #10 / 38g so I guess my attempt to go a bit off plane is the right idea. I know a vertical bc doesn't work well for me.

It is that change of planes between the bc and fc technique that I am curious to see how others do it. Lighter rods don't bother me, but the larger ones make me feel like my technique could be better.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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