Loop control

[Jason King]

Hi all,
I am sorry if this has been discussed here already but I couldn’t find it in the search.

Yesterday after casting I was looking at my footage and I noticed something interesting
I noticed if I didn’t haul with a given length of line the loops got bigger.
Then when I hauled with the same line they shrunk.
Does the speed of the haul also control the size of the loop?
So if I haul too fast and jerky I can over tighten the loop but too slow and the loop will stay larger?

Cheers,
Jason.

[John Waters]

Hi Jason,

The haul should adds speed for a given arc and facilitate a straighter tip path. A number of drivers determine haul effectiveness but In respect of smoothness, think of it like your rod hand movement. You are accelerating both hands from a static start position (zero speed) to an end speed, so smoothness is paramount. If your rod hand acceleration is jerky the tip path is negatively impacted. Same with a jerky haul, it will most likely bounce your rod tip down and up, rather than adding speed and delaying rod straightening without any tip bounce. You don't want tip bounce so accelerate both hands smoothly.

Just haul as the rod the rod tip moves through the vertical and keep it in the plane of the rod and keep it short. For your distances say half a metre.

John

[Jason King]

Thanks John,

Maybe I am rushing the haul as I am trying to time it to be as close to the block as possible which makes me do a quick jerky haul.
Thank you for clarifying what the jerky haul does.
I will work on a smoother haul....while trying not to forget everything else.

Cheers,
Jason.

[John Waters]

Try a shorter haul Jason, and slow it down a tad. Focus on feeling the line always being under tension during your forward haul, keeping the line taut throughout the haul. The other thing to try is start your wrist rotation slightly earlier in the stroke so that you have less translation before the turnover.
Hopefully we can have a cast in Melbourne in a few weeks.

John

[Jason King]

Yeh we need to get out mate.....hopefully we can in a few weeks.
Luckily I have the park at my back fence to cast in otherwise this lockdown would be driving me bonkers.
I will take that advice onboard, thanks again John.

Jason.

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Jason,

I noticed if I didn’t haul with a given length of line the loops got bigger.
Then when I hauled with the same line they shrunk.

That's a great observation. I apologise if this is too basic!

When we bend a rod by moving it, it's got to straighten. However, the rod doesn't just straighten, it actually bends past this point, this swinging over in the opposite direction to the original bend is what we call counterflex.

Counterflex has a dramatic effect on loop size. It's why really soft rods are no good for distance casting, as there is too much counterflex which opens the loop and makes it harder for the line to shoot.

If we haul, we can back off the force with the rod hand. When we put less force into the rod, it bends less, which = less counterflex and a tighter loop than otherwise possible with the rod hand alone. Good casting requires you to haul as the rod is unloading, and i think this contributes to helping straighten the tip path.

Think about minimum force with the rod hand, and lots of speed with the haul. If you think about hauling through the stop, you'll see yourself generating much better loops. It's all to do with where you peak with the hauling speed, and naturally, where you start is relative to this. The idea is to reach max haul speed as your rod approaches rod straight position (like i talked about earlier). The haul (pull) should be quite fast, but the feed should be at the same speed as the unrolling loop, think about moving your hand in a straight line rather than curves, it's far easier to accelerate very smoothly in straight lines.

Johns given excellent advice as usual, such as not starting hauling until the rod has passed the vertical. A common thing you may hear is "no power until midnight" i don't like clock terms, but that's a good way to remember it.

Short line short haul, longer line longer haul. Certainly for big distances its a full arm length, also, hauling speed does control loop shape, yes

I haul all the time, it allows far greater control over the line, so it's not always a distance thing.

Hope that helps?

[Jason King]

Thanks a lot for the reply Nick.
I am still learning the how’s and whys so nothing is too basic for me, thanks mate.
It’s funny, I am still at the stage where there are quite a lot of things I am thinking about with each cast so unfortunately I forget to do as instructed.
Very annoying when I look back at footage and I see my grip too tight at the stop when I thought I had that down pat...when I have just spent the practice session focusing on hauling better etc.
Then I fix the grip and get my hauling better and I’m stopping way too far back, or some other problem....lol.
I don’t mind making the mistakes as long as I have an idea what the mistakes are.
It also helps a lot to know what the mistakes are doing to the cast and how they effect the cast.
So thanks a lot for the help.

It looks like I am starting to get into a habit of doing almost the same haul for a 20ft cast all the way to 50ft cast.
I remember John telling me to open up my haul as the targets got further.....but I haven’t been doing it.
Concentrating on other things and I have forgotten until this thread.
Thanks heaps again.

Jason.

[Jason King]

The rain finally stopped and I got out for a cast.
Trying to smooth out the haul and lengthen the haul as the line lengthens to a max of around half a metre at a 50ft cast seems to have really helped.
Now to keep practicing practicing practicing.

Jason.

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Jason,

That's excellent, congratulations! If you would be comfortable, i'd recommend posting a video so that we can all help you with problems. I can assure you, you won't get ridiculed on here. I've seen John (and others of course) give excellent advice to someone who posted a video, the next week saw a dramatic improvement with only a weeks worth of practice.

I do know what you mean, it is a lot to remember and it can be frustrating, but i guarantee you will get it down, just keep going with it.

I would do the following when you are next out as a structured practice session. Remember to always work on the biggest issue first and go from there, break it down ;

1. Hold the rod like a tube of toothpaste, hold it gently and then at the end of the stroke, imagine squeezing a pea sized amount of toothpaste out of it. It's a tiny squeeze, if you squeeze too hard a long line of toothpaste comes out, we only want a pea sized amount.

2. Warm up exercise; Work on loops in isolation, rod hand only, Bills 1' at a time drill. Start with rod length of fly line + leader and fluff and try and make the loops stall at the needle knot, they should be very tight and move slowly. When you are happy, add 1' and continue until you reach 30'. A lot of issues can be fixed by taking out 50% of the force (power).

3. Work on a problem in isolation, is it the back cast, the forward cast? If it's one, say the back, only practice doing back casts VERY slowly and accurately at first, make a back cast, let it fall to the ground, spin round 180 and repeat. Make sure the movements are correct. Then increase speed gradually and work it back into the stroke to ensure continuity.

4. Hauling; Work your way through the distances with a pick up and lay down at each distance first starting at 20', 30', 40', 50', 60' +. 20' is going to have a haul somewhere around a foot, work your way up to a full arm length for the bigger distances. When you are happy, false cast with the different distances. Think of the haul doing all the work, and your rod hand guiding the loop and giving it direction/shape.

5. Finally, end with a fun activity, maybe have a go at knocking some cans over with the fly? A kind of Clint Eastwood shootout if you will. Keep the practice sessions short, say 30 minutes.

It looks like I am starting to get into a habit of doing almost the same haul for a 20ft cast all the way to 50ft cast.
I remember John telling me to open up my haul as the targets got further.....but I haven’t been doing it.

That can be tricky, one piece of advice for the back cast, start the back haul with your hand closer to the first stripping guide for the longer cast, also, if you are finding that you are still gripping too tightly, take the butt section off and cast only with the top 3 sections, you physically cant grip this as well as the cork

Check out Bruce hauling; 9:30



All the best!

[Jason King]

Thanks Nick I will give it a shot.
I like that toothpaste analogy...I have been trying to imitate the way Joan Wulff Squeezes the sponge....but she doesn’t say how hard to squeeze.

Jason.