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Embarrassing question
Moderator: Viking Lars
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Embarrassing question
To save face I won't divulge how many years I have been tying, but I simply have not used this common technique before, and I now find it to be kinda difficult...
How do you fold a hackle before Palmering it around the shank like you would when tying a freshwater fly like a Woolly Bugger?
I've Palmered numerous saltwater flies but I always just wrapped the hackle without folding. After watching some videos I see an advantage of folding, but the hackles I'm using simply refuse to comply... leading to frustration instead of needed relaxation.
It is something that only works with small hackles like those used for trout flies???
How do you fold a hackle before Palmering it around the shank like you would when tying a freshwater fly like a Woolly Bugger?
I've Palmered numerous saltwater flies but I always just wrapped the hackle without folding. After watching some videos I see an advantage of folding, but the hackles I'm using simply refuse to comply... leading to frustration instead of needed relaxation.
It is something that only works with small hackles like those used for trout flies???
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Re: Embarrassing question
Hi Gary,
If it makes you feel better I’ve been tying for 40 years and never heard of it In fact it was only about 15 years ago I learned that hackles should be tied in at the butt and not the tip. Personally I still prefer to tie them tip first. Otherwise they look too tidy
Cheers, Paul
If it makes you feel better I’ve been tying for 40 years and never heard of it In fact it was only about 15 years ago I learned that hackles should be tied in at the butt and not the tip. Personally I still prefer to tie them tip first. Otherwise they look too tidy
Cheers, Paul
Re: Embarrassing question
Hi Gary
I’ve used several techniques. Some hackles fold easier than others. Hen and Schlappen fold easily. Cock hackles and small feathers less so.
There are a good few videos on YouTube which show different methods. April Vokey’s one is good.[url][/url]
The scissor-based method can be good for stiffer hackles.
With long feathers (saddles) you can fold them before you tie them in. Whichever method you use, take your time. They usually need quite a bit of working to get a good fold.
Finally, I think FutureFly do a tool especially for folding hackles. Worth looking up if you’re keen?
Hope this helps.
Will
I’ve used several techniques. Some hackles fold easier than others. Hen and Schlappen fold easily. Cock hackles and small feathers less so.
There are a good few videos on YouTube which show different methods. April Vokey’s one is good.[url][/url]
The scissor-based method can be good for stiffer hackles.
With long feathers (saddles) you can fold them before you tie them in. Whichever method you use, take your time. They usually need quite a bit of working to get a good fold.
Finally, I think FutureFly do a tool especially for folding hackles. Worth looking up if you’re keen?
Hope this helps.
Will
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Re: Embarrassing question
Thanks Will!
The scissors trick is likely to be my new best friend!
GM
The scissors trick is likely to be my new best friend!
GM
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Re: Embarrassing question
For palmering, I tie in the hackle by the butt, at the eye/front end of the body and then wind it towards the tail. If you do it this way, the hackle doesn't need folding and it falls beautifully backwards. Come across the tip of the hackle with the rib and counter rib up the body and tie off. This I find is the very best way of doing it.
I would only tie the palmerhackle by the tip at the tail end if the specific fly recipe doesn't call for a rib (and even then, I might use a piece of mono and do it as described above - the mono disappears yet strengthens the fly).
Check this video out - here I use the tying thread as the rib, but the technique is essentially the same (the link opens where the hackling begins):
Hope it helps :-).
I would only tie the palmerhackle by the tip at the tail end if the specific fly recipe doesn't call for a rib (and even then, I might use a piece of mono and do it as described above - the mono disappears yet strengthens the fly).
Check this video out - here I use the tying thread as the rib, but the technique is essentially the same (the link opens where the hackling begins):
Hope it helps :-).
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Re: Embarrassing question
Thanks for that mighty fine video, Lars. I've never bothered tying palmered flies but this is dragging me back to my vice with hackles in hand! Cheers.
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Re: Embarrassing question
Yep I tie palmers the same way as Lars. Perfect for tying with “poorer quality” hackles since you get an excellent taper are even the cock hackles are somewhat softer.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
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Re: Embarrassing question
Thanks Lars,
The whole thing, the tying, the fly, and the production was beautiful.
It was the Palmering step like of the golden hackles on the front that I was having trouble with.
There is a common saltwater fly called a Seaducer that has a similar front wrapped hackle. When I attempt to tie it "bendback" style all the materials are tied on a very short section of the shank. The last Palmered hackle I want very thick, unlike the sparse one on your fly. So I need a maximum number of fibers in only a few wraps.
Folding to double the fibers was driving me crazy... kinda like typing on a phone is doing now.
The whole thing, the tying, the fly, and the production was beautiful.
It was the Palmering step like of the golden hackles on the front that I was having trouble with.
There is a common saltwater fly called a Seaducer that has a similar front wrapped hackle. When I attempt to tie it "bendback" style all the materials are tied on a very short section of the shank. The last Palmered hackle I want very thick, unlike the sparse one on your fly. So I need a maximum number of fibers in only a few wraps.
Folding to double the fibers was driving me crazy... kinda like typing on a phone is doing now.
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Re: Embarrassing question
Like Lars, I tie at the front and catch it with the rib-just wind the rib as though there was no hackle and you'll not trap too many fibers.
I only fold hackles at the head/shoulder of the fly and do that by putting my thumb and first 2 fingers togetherand pass them back allowing the hook eye to go through the space between the fingers after each wrap.
Seaducer wants the hackle tied at the tip end, but rather than doubling it might be better to tie a thicker hackle in roughly in the middle(although still by the tip end) and wind the thicker webbier end.
I only fold hackles at the head/shoulder of the fly and do that by putting my thumb and first 2 fingers togetherand pass them back allowing the hook eye to go through the space between the fingers after each wrap.
Seaducer wants the hackle tied at the tip end, but rather than doubling it might be better to tie a thicker hackle in roughly in the middle(although still by the tip end) and wind the thicker webbier end.
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Re: Embarrassing question
Thanks for the kind words on the video.
Another trick to add is this: Instead of "wasting" time folding, breaking the fibres with scissors etc., I find the best and the fastest way in both palmered and "normal" hackles, is simply to stroke back the fibers *before* each turn, not after. Just as I do with the front hackle in the same video as above.
Lars
Another trick to add is this: Instead of "wasting" time folding, breaking the fibres with scissors etc., I find the best and the fastest way in both palmered and "normal" hackles, is simply to stroke back the fibers *before* each turn, not after. Just as I do with the front hackle in the same video as above.
Lars