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Maximum Rod Bend

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Merlin
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#51

Post by Merlin » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:50 am

I am experimenting with haul duration and rod types at the moment for both the Trout Distance and Sea Trout Distance events and it is a fine balance between the impact on distance
Hi John

The faster the rod is, the smaller the window to place peak haul velocity is. For a #10 rod, MCL can be right in between MAV and RSP, with 40 ms difference on each side.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

John Waters
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#52

Post by John Waters » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:00 am

Thanks Daniel, appreciated. That absolutely supports my experiences with the 38 gram ICSF event and the counter flex generated.

Thanks,

John

Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#53

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:14 pm

Merlin

Quick question (that is a pun!)

When you talk of a short haul (100ms), or a normal one (300ms), you are speaking of haul duration.

What is the distance the hand travels during this period?

Do you / can you vary this in your model?
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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gordonjudd
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#54

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:45 pm

Here is a record of your hand speed and acceleration for a 170 cast:
Merlin,
Do you have a similar record of the haul speed and haul acceleration Paul uses for a distance cast?

As we know the hand or hand separation speed is not the same as the haul speed because of the effect of the rod rotation on the distance between the haul hand and the first stripper guide.

Regardless, as with any mechanical system the haul velocity is the integral of the haul acceleration. Thus the haul acceleration will go to zero when the velocity reaches its maximum just as shown in your graphs.

I will see if I have some haul velocity data on one of Paul's casts to get an idea of how much delay there is between the peak of the acceleration of the haul and the peak of the haul velocity. It appears that difference was around 50 ms for your hand speed graphs.

Gordy

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Merlin
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#55

Post by Merlin » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:47 pm

Gary

I can tune distance and time, for 300 ms I use PHVelocity = 10 m/s and haul distance is 1.5 meters.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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Merlin
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#56

Post by Merlin » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:53 pm

It was 75 ms in the graphics Gordy (300 ms/4)

Paul's record comes from your dataset, it was a distance cast as far as I can remember and I use a simplification of the haul (it is not a 3D model) and not a precise description as you explain in your post.

Merlin

PS for Gary: in the case of 100 ms, the hand path is 0.5 m.
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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gordonjudd
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#57

Post by gordonjudd » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm

I will see if I have some haul velocity data on one of Paul's casts to get an idea of how much delay there is between the peak of the acceleration of the haul and the peak of the haul velocity.
Here are measured haul acceleration and haul velocity plots for one of Paul's delivery casts.
Image
It appears the delay between max haul acceleration and max haul velocity was around 60 ms in that cast.

That data was taken from this video.


From the annotations on the graphs you can see that MAV was at 138 ms before RSP1, and the max haul acceleration was reached about 20 ms before MAV.

Merlin, just based on the similarity of the curves I think your plots were for haul speed values not just hand speed.
Gordy

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Merlin
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#58

Post by Merlin » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:22 pm

It is exactly the same record Gordy, I missed the point it was not the hand path but the haul itself. Sounds good for modeling.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#59

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:09 pm

Hi Lou,
You started this thread from here:
Lou Bruno wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:03 pm
When teaching hauling we usually mention the two major benefits of hauling...increase bend and increase line speed.
...
These are some of the secondary thoughts, don't expect answers, merely thought provocing.
Lou
[/quote]

After nearly 60 posts, what are the benefits auf hauling as you understand them by now?

Oh, and let me add, I did expect answers when I started reading all 6 pages!
Cheers
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Maximum Rod Bend

#60

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 pm

gordonjudd wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:19 pm
While the rod tip acts as a pulley post MCL it also does so at any time that the rod is not directly pointing down the line IMO.
Gordy
Hi Gordy,
how can the rod tip per se act as a pulley post minimum chord length = during straightening?
Can you please explain, thanks.
Regards
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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